The lone surviving gunman from Mumbai attacks last November has been telling a court in India about his recruitment in Pakistan. Rand Corporation analyst Christine Fair tells host Lisa Mullins that Indians are wondering whether those who planned the attack in Pakistan will face trial.
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LISA MULLINS: I’m Lisa Mullins, and this is The World. The lone surviving gunman in last year’s attacks on Mumbai, India, has told his story. Ajmal Kassab confessed yesterday to his part in the violence. Today, Kassab told a judge in Mumbai just how his life’s path led to his spraying automatic gunfire at commuters. Here’s his story. Kassab said that he’d been unhappy with his low wages as a shop assistant in Pakistan, so he sought out the mujahedeen, Muslim jihadist, for training to become a professional bandit. They directed him to the militant group behind the attacks. Christine Fair is a senior political scientist with the Rand Corporation and a professor at Georgetown University. She’s now in New Delhi, India. Kassab’s story, as he told it in recent days, I wonder if you find it credible, and what in it you find surprising.
CHRISTINE FAIR: I think what has been most interesting here in Delhi, and probably the source of considerable incredulity, was that one of his instructors was actually allegedly [INDISCERNIBLE], an Indian. He claimed that this individual actually taught him Hindi. Hindi and Ordu have very similar grammar, but there are really significant vocabulary differences, and if you’re not careful, those vocabulary items could quickly give you away as a Pakistani. So I think, in terms of what he’s confessed to, that might be the most shocking. He, you know, he certainly disavowed some of the killings that, I think, some people thought that he was responsible for. So there’s been some doubts about some of the killings that he’s advocated responsibility for. But I think the basic penance of what he laid out in his confessions hasn’t really surprised that many people, other than the Indian trainer.
LISA MULLINS: This horrific attack that happened that traumatized India, traumatized the world, what importance do you read in the fact that one of his handlers was Indian?
CHRISTINE FAIR: Lustri Tiava [PH] has been able to attract disaffected Indian Muslims. Now, obviously terrorism has been going on in India now for decades, and many of the groups that were perpetuating the tax for Pakistan base. So, there was always a network of basically logistical, you know, safe houses and in other providers a logistical assistance, and that obviously implied Indian simplicity, and that’s gone on for decades. But Lustri Tiava [PH] in particular has been able to develop Indian cells, Indian operatives, Indian commanders. And, so, this is not something new, it’s just not something that is terribly, [LAUGHS] people aren’t terribly comfortable about talking about it.
LISA MULLINS: And is that kind of thing then that is addressed now? I mean, after Kassab talks about this, tells the judge, confesses, is that the kind of thing that Indians themselves start talking about?
CHRISTINE FAIR: Well, not really, because the preponderance of the attack was really executed by Pakistan based militants. The real focus is, what is the Pakistani State going to do? And I think all of the eyes now are on Pakistan. And this came up, of course, with Secretary Quentin’s visit. Now, she was very clear that she expects Pakistan to engage in a transparent judicial proceeding to bring the individuals culpable to some sort of account.
LISA MULLINS: What is the bigger picture here? I mean, this young man is telling a story, saying he was disaffected young man who took up arms not because of ideology, but because there was very little else for him to do to escape poverty. For you though–
CHRISTINE FAIR: See, I take a lot of umbrage to that characterization of this event. Terrorism in South Asia is not like terrorism elsewhere, because the group that we’re talking about here is not just spring up out of nowhere. This was a group actually set up actively with the assistance of Pakistan’s external intelligence agency. So, it’s not a non-fate actor in the way that one might think about other terrorist groups. For example, like Al Qaeda, where individuals just sort of bumble along, need a recruiter and find themselves in a boat killing Indians. So I think this sort of, he’s a young disaffected guy who’s poor, had an opportunity, became a criminal and then joined the militant group. That’s a sideline from the big story, which is, the international community in Pakistan itself has been unable to get Pakistan to renounce terrorism as a tool of foreign policy. So, even if every person in Pakistan wasn’t poor and disaffected, if you’re tool of foreign policy is terrorism, there will be a way to command those missions. And I think the real question for the United States is, how do we persuade Pakistan to seize and assist from relying upon this tool.
LISA MULLINS: Is, does the United States have it within its power to get Pakistan to stop doing that? Certainly has put a lot of pressure on Pakistan and other areas against Al Auida. I mean, how much power does the US have to do that?
CHRISTINE FAIR: My personal assessment is, that the United States has very little sway. We certainly have less sway than the Indians think we do. And the only way for Pakistan to go forward, actually is for Pakistani’s, the citizenry, to come to some kind of conclusion about what kind of state that they wanna live in.
LISA MULLINS: Christine, thank you very much. Christine Fair, senior political scientist with the Rand Corporation, and a professor at Georgetown University. We spoke to her from New Delhi, India. Thank you very much.
CHRISTINE FAIR: No, thank you, have a great day.
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Thank you for allowing Christine Fair time to fully express her thoughts about Pakistan’s use of terrorism as a foreign policy tool. Too often, news topics and opinions are not given enough airtime (or ink) to develop fully. Some ideas can’t be adequately expressed in 140 characters or 10 seconds. Thank you for letting Ms. Fair speak w/o interruption, so she can develop her argument, and listeners can weigh the merits.