Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.

Download MP3
Military secrets, political secrets — and up to 30 Billion dollars worth of research are stolen ever year by foreign spies working in Canada. That’s according to former Canadian intelligence officer Michel Juneau-Katsuya who says Canada is the world’s number one destination for foreign spies. He’s author of the new book, “Nest of Spies: The Startling Truth about Foreign Agents at Work Within Canada’s Borders.” He speaks with anchor Marco Werman.

Read the Transcript
This text below is a phonetic transcript of a radio story broadcast by PRI’s THE WORLD. It has been created on deadline by a contractor for PRI. The transcript is included here to facilitate internet searches for audio content. Please report any transcribing errors to theworld@pri.org. This transcript may not be in its final form, and it may be updated. Please be aware that the authoritative record of material distributed by PRI’s THE WORLD is the program audio.

MARCO WERMAN:  US officials already knew about the nuclear facility that Iran acknowledged today.  They had intelligence on it.  Gathering intelligence is, many times, the work of spies.  And you’d be surprised to learn which country is the number one destination for international spies.  According to a new book, it’s Canada.  The authors claim spies have stolen all sorts of military, political and commercial secrets from our neighbors to the north.  The book is “Nest of Spies:  The Startling Truth About Foreign Agents at Work Within Canada’s Borders.”  Co-author Michel Juneau-Katsuya is a former Canadian intelligence officer.  He joins us from Ottawa.   So Michel, why all the spying in Canada?

MICHEL JUNEAU-KATSUYA:  Canada is a knowledge-based society.  It’s a country that has a lot to offer when it comes to cutting-edge technology.  If you invest in RND, that’s a medium to long-term research.  If you invest into your intelligence with the intent of stealing trade secrets, you have the possibility to have an immediate return.  And that’s why we’ve seen so much activities in particular in Canada, because Canada is ill-prepared to defend itself in that perspective.

WERMAN:  So do you have any sense of how this is slowing down Canada’s economy right now?

JUNEAU-KATSUYA:  We are certain at this point that we are greatly affected.  Give you an example of the [INDISCERNIBLE] it might affect.  There’s a company right here – in 1998, one of its employee took the gadget that he had just recently developed. He sold it to the Vietnamese government.  Within a month, the Vietnamese government was capable to put it on the market at a price where the company was not capable to compete against. The company estimated that they lost, just with that gadget, 10 years of research, 40 to $45 million dollars in RND – Research and Development – and in market share between $200 million to $1 billion dollars.

WERMAN:  How has Canada’s spy service [INDISCERNIBLE] responded to all of these spies in their own front yard?

JUNEAU-KATSUYA:  They’re actually pretty good.  They have an excellent reputation internationally in terms of being able to intercept and monitor and collect information on the spy.  Unfortunately, since 9-11, their budget has been significantly reduced, impairing their ability to sort of be as efficient as possible.   And the other aspect is that also for them, unfortunately, the Canadian government constantly interfere when they present a case to the Prime Minister and say, “We must take action on this file.”  And the guys say, “Well, no.  We have currently a trade negotiation.  We have a diplomatic relationship.” Blah, blah, blah.  And at the end of the day, the national security lose all the time.

WERMAN:  Perhaps the most eye-catching story in “Nest of Spies” that you tell is how the Canadian spy agency, CSIS, had their eye on a famous Soviet hockey player.  You refer to the case as “The Goalie with A Secret In His Glove”.  Tell us that story.

JUNEAU-KATSUYA:  It is the very famous Vladislav Tretchya, the goalie in the ‘70s that made the Soviet Union so powerful on ice.  He was one of the unique individuals and elite individuals that were capable to commonly travel abroad.  He had access to very influential people, various political and otherwise.  And in that perspective, he became quite important for – as a key player for another team, the KGB, to identify talent spotter – what we refer to as “talent spotting” which is basically to identify people who are in sympathy with Soviet Union, and eventually could be recruited by the KGB as a potential source.

WERMAN:  Does the US spy in Canada?

JUNEAU-KATSUYA:  Definitely.  The US spy big time in Canada.

WERMAN:  Big time or –

JUNEAU-KATSUYA:  Oh, yes.  There’s basically no restriction anymore.  Everybody must fight to capture as much as possible market share.  As I said, it is under Mr. Clinton actually that the CIA received carte blanche to sort of operate as much as possible, anywhere in the name of defending national security, in the name of promoting and helping their national industry.

WERMAN:  There have been, interestingly, no espionage prosecutions in Canada in the past 15 years, while in the US, UK and France there have been hundreds.  Do you think that’s part of the problem, a sense in the espionage world that you can operate in Canada with immunity?

JUNEAU-KATSUYA:  Totally agree with you.  Totally agree in that perspective that it is one of the problem.  The message that it sends abroad is that basically you can come to Canada.  Even if you are caught, you will not be prosecuted.  And this is extremely, extremely negative.  It is a very negative, and the key is demonstrating the lack of interest and the lack of understanding from the Canadian government of the importance of that issue.

WERMAN:  Michel Juneau-Katsuya is a former Canadian intelligence officer.  He is also co-author of the book, “Nest of Spies:  The Startling Truth About Foreign Agents at Work Within Canada’s Borders.”  Thank you, indeed.

JUNEAU-KATSUYA:  Thank you for having me.

Copyright ©2009 PRI’s THE WORLD. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to PRI’s THE WORLD. This transcript may not be reproduced, in whole or in part, without prior written permission. For further information, please email The World’s Permissions Coordinator at theworld@pri.org.