Defunct place names

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On Monday’s Geo Quiz we want to know about geographic names that have disappeared. Here’s an example: Tanganyika. Can you find Tanganyika on the map? It once bordered the Indian Ocean and Lake Victoria, but its vanished! Harry Campbell has written a book called “Whatever Happened to Tanganyika?: The Place Names That History Left Behind.” We speak with him.

• Which disappearing name would you like to bring back?
• Which place names would you like to see retired?

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MARCO WERMAN: Let’s go now to the answer to our Geo Quiz today about geographic names that have disappeared.  Did you find Tanganyika yet on the map?  Well, it once bordered the Indian Ocean and Lake Victoria, but it’s vanished!  Harry Campbell has written a book about place names that history left behind, and Harry it’s called what, your book?

HARRY CAMPBELL:  It’s called “Whatever happened to Tanganyika?” which is actually something a friend of mine said to me once on the phone as we were discussing the subject.  I thought it had a good ring to it.

WERMAN:  Right, so whatever did happen to Tanganyika?  Let’s start off with that question?

CAMPBELL:  You want to spoil the surprise.  Okay.  It became independent, as so many African states did in the 1960s, in 1961.  But don’t forget that what we now call it is not quite the same thing, because it incorporated with Zanzibar three years later, and they simply took the “Tan” of Tanganyika and the “Zan” of Zanzibar and called it “Tanzania.”

WERMAN:  Now Harry, you’ve come up with about 50 examples in your book.  What’s the most recent name change to your mind?

CAMPBELL:  Well, there’s some which are very much kind of in progress, if you like.  There’s sort of an infamous one really, Derry, or Londonderry in Northern Ireland. That’s still very much bubbling under.  There’s some kind of procedure in progress at the moment to officially change the name from Londonderry, which is hated by the Republican community, to Derry, which is probably what most people call it, but that’s not an easy thing to do.  A lot of them seem recent to

me, even though actually they’re not when you add it up.  I still think of Yugoslavia as being recent, but unfortunately it isn’t. That’s just age, isn’t it?

WERMAN:  And what drives these name changes?  I mean, Londonderry and Derry, I mean, there’s a lot of political subtext there, isn’t there?

CAMPBELL:  A huge amount of political subtext.  Some of these things are very hot potatoes altogether and they’re to do with righting ancient injustices or the head on clash of two cultures, or changing from one language to another.  A lot of places in Eastern Europe we used to call by their Germanic name, and now we use the Slavic equivalent.  And of course the African ones often had European style names invented for them which have now been done away with.

WERMAN:  If you look at India, you’ve got the cities of Calcutta and Madras, now Kolkata and Chennai.  What’s driving that, do you think?

CAMPBELL:  Cynically, you might say that is the most overtly and really blatantly political of all, because you might ask, why did the Indian names change now, 50 years [MISSING AUDIO] very tangled web and I think many people in India would say they should just leave well alone.

WERMAN:  Are you one of those people who pines for Tanganyika as opposed to Tanzania?

CAMPBELL:  No.  By and large, I don’t have strong moral feelings about these different places, except of course to the extent that atrocities happened in them, and let me tell you, some of the stories would curl your hair.  The one feeling I do have sometimes is that nowadays, we’re possibly too quick to use a local name that just doesn’t work happily in English.

WERMAN:  For example?

CAMPBELL:  When there is a perfectly good– well, why do we have to call it Moldova as opposed to Moldavia?  It’s still the same place, you know.

WERMAN:  What drove that change?

CAMPBELL:  I think it’s just part of becoming a new nation, or throwing off the imperial shackles in the case of the Moldovans of the Soviet empire.  They want to sort of rebrand themselves and have a fresh identity.  I supposed, you know, one can sort of sympathize.  That is perfectly legitimate, but it makes people confused and uncertain.  I mean, what’s the adjective?  Are they Mold-O-vans or MOL-do-vans?  No one knows how to pronounce it.

WERMAN:  Now you call this a book of nostalgic geography, but implicit in that nostalgia is some pretty rough and tough histories.

CAMPBELL:  There are.

WERMAN:  For example, I wonder what the Congolese would say when asked, “Were times better when your capital was Leopoldville or now that it is Kinshasa?” and I think most would say, “Independence is far better than the alternative.”

CAMPBELL:  Yes, indeed, but then, of course, independence often goes awry when it’s hijacked by demagogues and tyrants and dictators, so the late and not at all lamented dictator who called Congo Zaire, at least, he called the Belgian Congo Zaire.

WERMAN:  Mobutu Sese Seko.

CAMPBELL:  Exactly.  Now he’s– that was only one of two Congos.  People don’t– people forget that there are in fact two.  There’s the People’s Republic and the Democratic Republic, or Congo Kinshasa, and Congo Brazzaville.

WERMAN:  Right.

CAMPBELL:  But yeah, Kinshasa has been through some pretty bad times.  It used to be “Kin La Belle” because it was thought to be beautiful.  It was one of the most elegant and modern African cities, but I don’t think that it still really could quite be called that.  It’s suffered quite badly over the years.

WERMAN:  Harry Campbell, are there any cases of voluntary name changes that didn’t involve colonial powers invading or conquesting an area?

CAMPBELL:  There’s a place in Montana that renamed itself Joe, so that it could be Joe, Montana.

WERMAN:  Right, I remember that, yeah.

CAMPBELL:  No, but how seriously people take these sorts of name changes, I’m not 100 percent sure.  It’s just a bit of fun, I guess.

WERMAN:  I’m wondering, you mentioned Moldova.  I’m wondering if there’s a place name that you think really should get changed.

CAMPBELL:  Well, I wonder what people think about those.  Presumably if they haven’t changed them, they’re not bothered by them.

WERMAN:  Well, that’s a great question we can share with our listeners.  What disappearing name would you like to bring back?  Which place names would you like to see retired?  So let us know.  Post your comments at The World dot org, and we can circle back with you Harry, and give you some of those answers, maybe for some further research.

CAMPBELL:  That would be great.

WERMAN:  Harry Campbell, that’s still your name, right?  You didn’t change it since this interview began?

CAMPBELL:  No, I’m sticking with it for now.  I’ll cross it out on the headed paper if I change my mind.

WERMAN:  All right, Harry Campbell, the author of “Whatever Happened to Tanganyika?” speaking to us from Glasgow, Scotland.  Thank you very much.

CAMPBELL:  You’re welcome.  Thank you.

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