Audio clip: Adobe Flash Player (version 9 or above) is required to play this audio clip. Download the latest version here. You also need to have JavaScript enabled in your browser.

Download MP3
Anchor Katy Clark speaks with the BBC’s Gabriel Gatehouse about the security situation in Iraq.

Read the Transcript
This text below is a phonetic transcript of a radio story broadcast by PRI’s THE WORLD. It has been created on deadline by a contractor for PRI. The transcript is included here to facilitate internet searches for audio content. Please report any transcribing errors to theworld@pri.org. This transcript may not be in its final form, and it may be updated. Please be aware that the authoritative record of material distributed by PRI’s THE WORLD is the program audio.

KATY CLARK: I’m Katy Clark.  This is The World.  A big question mark hangs over Iraq’s security forces today.  This after the Iraqi government arrested dozens of its own military and security personnel in relation to Sunday’s suicide bombings in Baghdad.  More than 150 people were killed in the blasts, which targeted three government buildings.  Those arrested today include high ranking officers in charge of security around the buildings.  The fact that the bombers slipped with ease through numerous checkpoints has raised questions about the effectiveness of Iraq’s security forces, just as the US military presence there decreases.  The BBC’s Gabriel Gatehouse is in Baghdad.  Gabriel, what do these arrests, some of them at a high level, tell us about what’s going on behind the scenes in Iraq right now?

GABRIEL GATEHOUSE:  Well, at the moment we don’t know exactly what these 61 security force personnel are suspected of.  We know they’re being held for questioning, but we don’t know whether they’re suspected of negligence or collusion, or what.  And until we know what exactly they’re suspected off, I suspect that this will fuel a suspicion that many in Iraq already had, which is really twofold about Iraqi security forces.  One is how competent they are, but secondly, and perhaps more worryingly, how open they are to pressure, or even infiltration by insurgents, by attackers.

CLARK:  And all this at a time when the US is very much decreasing its role in Iraq. But right now, what’s the feeling in Iraq about how much the US is still needed there?

GATEHOUSE:  Well, this is a very good question.  The thing is, the Americans want out.  They’ve made that perfectly clear.  The Iraqis in public also want the Americans out, but I think there is a worry about how competent the Iraqi security forces are and what will happen when more Americans leave.  Remember, the timetable as it stands is for all combat troops to be out of Iraq by the end of August, in preparation for a full military withdrawal by the end of 2011.  I’ve been speaking to the Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, and I asked him precisely that question.  In the light of these latest attacks, does he still want more help from the Americans?

HOSHYAR ZEBARI:  They need to be more engaged, actually. Americans cannot just wash of their hands to say, “Well, we are no longer engaged or interested, because we have our own timetable to withdraw.”  Yes, we have agreed, but from now until 2011, I think Iraq is going through some very, very serious challenges, and let’s be honest.  Iraq is not yesterday’s story.  It’s today’s story, for everybody.

CLARK:  Again, that’s Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari. And Gabriel, is Zebari’s message reflective of government and popular opinion?

GATEHOUSE:  No, I don’t think it is, at least, not in public.  But privately, I think a lot of people feel nervous about the prospect of a decrease in the American presence here.  Some even saying that, “Look, we want the Americans to go, but we felt safer when they were around in the towns and cities.”  So I think there’s a bit of a disconnect going on between what’s being said publicly and what private fears really are when you talk behind closed doors.

CLARK:  A lot has been made about these Awakening Councils in Iraq, the former insurgents who are paid by the US to switch allegiances, and after that happened, there was a decrease in violence in Iraq.  With the US decreasing its presence there, how solid are these allegiances?

GATEHOUSE:  I think at the moment they’re pretty solid.  That said, not all of the Sunni tribal leaders agreed with the Awakening Councils.  You get some tribes that are split down the middle. I think one thing that’s important to make clear about Sunday’s attacks and the way it differed from the kind of violence that we were seeing a few years ago, very few people, if anyone that I spoke to, mentioned a sectarian angle in relation to Sunday’s bombings.  You didn’t get groups of Shiites blaming Sunnis, or groups of Sunnis blaming Shiites.  So the one ray of light, if you can put it like that, to come out of the aftermath of Sunday’s bombings  is possibly that perhaps Iraq is beginning to turn a corner in terms of those sectarian tensions.

CLARK:  The BBC’s Gabriel Gatehouse in Baghdad, thanks for speaking with us.

GATEHOUSE:  My pleasure.

Copyright ©2009 PRI’s THE WORLD. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to PRI’s THE WORLD. This transcript may not be reproduced, in whole or in part, without prior written permission. For further information, please email The World’s Permissions Coordinator at theworld@pri.org.