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China criticizes US over Internet freedom

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China has denounced US criticism of its Internet controls, saying it could harm ties between the two countries. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called on Thursday for China to lift restrictions on the Internet. Clinton also urged Beijing to investigate Google’s complaints that cyber attacks had originated in China. Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu said the US should “respect the facts” and stop making “groundless accusations against China”. Marco Werman talks with Rebecca MacKinnon, a fellow at the Open Society Institute, who is writing a book on the Internet in China.

• BBC coverage
• Full text of Clinton’s speech
• Video: Clips from Clinton’s speech
• On The World: Cyrus Farivar’s report on Clinton’s speech

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MARCO WERMAN:  I’m Marco Werman.  This is The World.  The White House says President Obama wants some answers from China.  A spokesman said today that Mr. Obama is troubled by recent cyber attacks in China against internet giant, Google.  The comment came just hours after Beijing warned Washington that continued U.S. criticism of its internet policies could be harmful to relations between the two nations.  Yesterday, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton challenged China and other countries to end internet censorship.  Rebecca MacKinnon is a fellow at the Open Society Institute and is writing a book on the internet in China.  This war of words is certainly starting to sizzle.  China denounced today what it called information imperialism.  Hillary Clinton warned of an information curtain echoing the old iron curtain descending.  Are the U.S. and China really ready to go to the mat on this issue or is this just posturing?

REBECCA MacKINNON:  I think the Chinese reaction was pretty predictable.  They tend to react this way any time the United States criticizes them so I wouldn’t immediately predict that we’re on the brink of some kind of escalation necessarily.

WERMAN:  Information imperialism is a great phrase but that’s from the Chinese government.  How much, if at all, do ordinary Chinese feel the idea of allowing a free flow of information is cultural imperialism?

MacKINNON:  There is certainly a lot of people in China who were able to watch Secretary Clinton’s speech on internet freedom and who reacted positively to it and who are very frustrated with censorship.  There are other people, however, who are more nationalistic and who feel that their government is being threatened and they kind of draw upon China’s history of being a victim of imperialism and actually there are a lot of people in China who feel very emotional about China’s independence and it’s ability to stand up to foreigners who criticize it and try to meddle so there are lots of different conflicting opinions in China.  And there are some people who are very frustrated with their government who don’t like the censorship but also don’t welcome foreigners to come in galloping in on their white horses.

WERMAN:  Well here is Secretary of State Hillary Clinton yesterday in Washington, articulating some of Washington’s demands.

HILLARY CLINTON:  We look to the Chinese authorities to conduct a thorough review of the cyber intrusions that led Google to make its announcement.  And we also look for that investigation and its results to be transparent.

WERMAN:  Rebecca MacKinnon, rather than moving in that direction, the Chinese government seems to be re-doubling its efforts to more tightly control the flow of information.  What do you think would happen to China if they just opened everything up?

MacKINNON:  China isn’t entirely closed off.  At any rate, there are a lot of people who actually do know how to use various technologies to get around the internet blocks.  You know, the Chinese government is also pretty good at manipulating information so that there are large websites full of people who actually take the Western media reports about China and pick them apart and analyze them in such a way to prove that New York Times reports about China and so on are all just lies and Western anti-China conspiracies.  So I think this is a government that definitely does feel threatened in a number of ways and is very serious about its need to control the internet in order to contain those threats.

WERMAN:  Do you think China will change the internet more than the internet will change China?  I mean do you think that maybe in the future the West will have to play by China’s rules?

MacKINNON:  Well that’s a very good question.  I mean China now has more internet users than any other country on the planet.  There are more Chinese online than there are Americans certainly and China is also working very actively to encourage its industry to be at the forefront of innovation in the new generation of internet technologies and really shaping the future generation of internet standards and whether those standards end up being more conducive to making censorship more easy or whether there will be more pushback from citizens around the world and companies to make sure that the internet remains open and free, that’s really an open question.

WERMAN:  Rebecca MacKinnon, a fellow at the Open Society Institute.  She’s also writing a book on the internet in China.  Thanks very much.

MacKINNON:  You’re welcome.

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