The regional factor

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Author Stephen Kinzer feels that both Turkey and Iran are key to US foreign policy in the Middle East. Kinzer is the author of “Reset: Iran, Turkey and America’s Future.”

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MARCO WERMAN:  Author Stephen Kinzer feels that both Turkey and Iran are key to U.S. foreign policy.  Kinzer is the author of the forthcoming “Reset: Iran, Turkey and America’s Future”.  Stephen Kinzer, we just heard in that story from Phillip Martin about the rising tensions in Turkey between those promoting the country’s secular tradition and those backing Islamization.  Given the tensions, how fragile do you think Turkey is at the moment?

STEPHEN KINZER:  I don’t think the basic fundamental principles of the Turkish State, or the stability of Turkey are really in danger.  One of the things that has contributed to Turkey’s success in its 80 year history is that it has managed to evolve with the times.  Turkey keeps up with the [phonetic] Zeit Geist.  Turkey was formed in the 1920′s at a time when the idea of authoritarian dictatorship was ascendant in the world and it was founded within that context, with a dictatorship under Ataturk.  Then after World War II as the world became more democratic Turkey had its first multi-party election and moved into a democratic era.  Now in the modern age, Turkey is moving a little bit further back towards some of its religious beliefs that people thought maybe that Turks had abandoned.  The Turkish political system is able to evolve.  It is able to withstand confrontations and tensions.  So I don’t think this current dispute fundamentally threatens the stability of that country.

WERMAN: And despite these religious secular tensions and a seeming perennial series of coup plots since Prime Minister Erdogan was elected, do you think Turkey can be and continue to be a bona fide partner for Washington?

KINZER: Absolutely.  Turkey is not only stable at home despite its political confrontation, nonetheless its also something more important for the United States and that is its taken on a very interesting regional role.  The new Turkish Foreign Minister proclaimed several years ago that his policy would be zero problems with neighbors.  And when you look around the neighborhood, Turkey indeed had very tense and difficult relationships with Iraq, with Iran, with Syria.  All those relationships have dramatically improved.  In addition, Turkey has shown itself able to talk to factions and groups and governments across a remarkably broad range, broader than the range of groups and factions that the U.S. can talk to.  Turkey is friendly with Israel, but it’s also friendly with Hamas.  It’s friendly with Iran and the United States; with Russia and Georgia.

WERMAN: Now, in your view though, the Turkey/U.S. relationship isn’t just crucial, it’s also joined by another spoke on the wheel.  You write in your book, in only one other Muslim country in the Middle East does the democratic heart beat as passionately as Turkey.  It is also the only country that might suddenly emerge to rival or even surpass Turkey’s level of political freedom; Iran.  I got to say, Iran is not a place we think of as a beacon of democracy.

KINZER: When you look back over the history of the last hundred years, you see that there are only two countries in the Muslim Middle East that have spent that period working toward democracy.  And those two are Turkey and Iran.  One thing we’ve learned from recent history, if it wasn’t clear already, is that democracy thrives and grows after a long period of acclimation.  Democracy cannot be introduced overnight in a country where it is seen as a foreign implant.  In Turkey and Iran, democracy has been developing over a hundred years and it’s seen very much as a domestic product.  It’s something that people there have decided on their own that they want.

WERMAN: Do you think that a more democratic Iran could co-exist with Israel?

KINZER: In the past, Iranians have had remarkably good relations with Israel.  And if you look further back into history, the relations between Persians and Jews have been quite strong over a period of thousands of years.  Iranians, don’t forget, are not Arabs.  They’re not necessarily on the same wavelength with Arabs when it comes to dealing with Israel and I don’t see any reason why there’s a built in hostility between Iran and Israel.  Probably even less so than there is between Israel and Arab countries.

WERMAN: Stephen Kinzer, the author of the forthcoming “Reset:  Iran, Turkey and America’s Future”, very nice to speak with you, thanks.

KINZER: Thank you sir.

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