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Officials in New Orleans have sought advice from the Netherlands when it comes to rebuilding the city’s levee system. Anchor Marco Werman speaks with Tarek Abdoun, professor of geotechnical engineering at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, New York, about how the two flood control systems compare.

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MARCO WERMAN: Climate change has increased the likelihood of more severe storms. That can’t be a welcome prospect for New Orleans. The city is still recovering from Katrina, which struck five years ago. The devastation from the hurricane was a product of not just the storm’s power but of the city’s failed levee system. Authorities are working to rebuild that system. And they’ve sought advice from the Netherlands. The Dutch boast a network of dikes, dams, and flood gates. Tarek Abdoun is a professor of geotechnical engineering at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, New York. He’s just come back from New Orleans where he was evaluating the new levee construction. He’s also consulted with Dutch officials on their levee system. Professor Abdoun, here’s my impression of the two projects. The Dutch, fifty years in the making ever since their unprecedented flood of 1953. They’ve also allocated a significant budget of 15% for research and development before even starting the project. The New Orleans levee took five years to build and was an improvement on the one that had previously failed.  Which one works better today?

TAREK ABDOUN:  It’s difficult to say which one works better. It’s really, each system is suitable for its own environment, but there is a lot of cross-correlation which we can learn from. That’s why the Corps have seeked help and input from the Dutch quickly after Hurricane Katrina which turned out to be very fruitful. And as we are moving forward to advanced technology which we implement in the levees in New Orleans, the Dutch are looking back now and looking what the US is doing to also benefit from it. So both systems have their advantage and disadvantage and we can learn a lot from looking at both systems.

WERMAN:  And would you say the materials are more intelligent in Europe or more intelligent in New Orleans?

ABDOUN: It’s basically what’s available in the area in terms of material to build. The Dutch uses a lot of [SOUNDS LIKE] dredge materials from the North Sea because that’s what economical for them to use. The US opted to use more concrete, more [INDISCERNIBLE] because that’s more rugged and they don’t want to take any more chances. Again, it depends on what’s available and what’s economical for them to use.

WERMAN: And after Katrina, as you were saying, when the US Army Corp of Engineers went to the Netherlands to see how their delta works, dam and levee system project functioned, what do you think were the primary lessons they took away to apply to New Orleans?

ABDOUN: I would say one of the main lessons is that the Dutch look at this as a continuous, or a living, project which is every year or every few years they go back, assess what they have, what’s a new technology, enhance it, and improve their system continuously. So, what was built 50 years ago is not exactly what’s on the ground right now because they are continually retrofitting it and improving it and implementing whatever comes in terms of new technology. With the system here in the US, as soon as the Corp of Engineers builds it, it’s [SOUNDS LIKE] counties or persons in the area, owns it so there wasn’t a follow-up. They system was looked at as adequate. There is not much enhancement need to be done, so the system will stand still for a long time till Hurricane Katrina hit. That approach is kind of being re-examined now and there is a good understanding now that even after building there would be a need to continuously enhance and monitor the system and some of the new project which I’m involved with is looking at how was continuously assess the health of the systems in New Orleans and elsewhere in the US.

WERMAN: It’s interesting what you say because the Dutch have done an amazing job of kind of calculating the risk of failure with each of the dams and dikes they’ve built in their system. Depending on the area, they can look at one event every 250 years happening. Other areas, other dikes, they’re looking at one event every 10,000 years. How far out is New Orleans looking and how far out should they be looking?

ABDOUN: If they are using similar criteria, like the Dutch, and they have been using that even before Hurricane Katrina, but the problem is what you implemented as your design, hurricane 50 years ago is different even if using the same [INDICERNIBLE] 250 years or 10,000 years, it’s changing because the environment is changing. So even the standard for that changes with time.

WERMAN: If we compare about who’s concerned about the season, in the Netherlands it seems that it’s kind of a national consciousness about the North Sea and the threat it poses. But here it’s really a small area of the country and how does that translate into who’s supposed to be taking care of protecting New Orleans from future floods?

ABDOUN: I think that’s what Hurricane Katrina helped the decision makers realize is that, as you said, it wasn’t something they are considered worrying about every day in the morning. Basically they didn’t feel the threat is real. The approach now is different. They way things are being managed are much, much better.

WERMAN:  Tarek Abdoun, a geotechnical engineer at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, New York. Very good to speak with you. Thanks for your time.

ABDOUN: Thank you very much.

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