Hamas not at the table

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Anchor Marco Werman speaks with the BBC’s Jon Donnison in Gaza about the peace talks in Washington and how Hamas’ hold on power in Gaza affects them.

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MARCO WERMAN: Another complication for negotiators in Washington is Gaza. President Mahmoud Abbas and his party don’t control it. And that’s a big problem, according to the BBC’s Jon Donnison in Gaza City.

JON DONNISON:  The elephant in the room, or rather not in the room, at these talks is Gaza. It is the people who live in Gaza and it is Hamas who control the Gaza Strip and have done now for over three years. And the fact of the matter is that President Abbas, when he speaks to President Obama and also Prime Minister Netanyahu, he is negotiating over land and this conflict is all about land and the fact is he doesn’t control all of that land. He doesn’t control the Gaza Strip. So, already that is a problem, I think, that many people see at some point is going to rear its head.

WERMAN:  And despite it’s small size, the Gaza Strip contains almost 40% of the Palestinian population in the two territories, West Bank and Gaza Strip. So we’re talking about a rather significant proportion under Hamas’ control as opposed to Mahmoud Abbas’ control.

DONNISON: Absolutely and it is very difficult to see how there really could be any deal done between the Israelis and the Palestinians without first of all the Palestinians finding unity. And an interesting fact is that for years the key issue for voters, Palestinian voters, both in Gaza and the West Bank, has been ending Israel’s occupation of the West Bank and of Gaza. Now, when they do polls it shows the key issue is actually, the thing they’re most concerned about, is achieving Palestinian unity and the fact is that isn’t there. The leaders cannot even agree to sit down together. Fatah and Hamas are not even talking. Really they’ve shown no sign of ending their differences and until that happens, as you suggest, really it’s going to be difficult for there to be any sort of long lasting deal in the longer term between Israel and the Palestinians.

WERMAN: Does Hamas concede any sovereignty or negotiating power to Abbas or do they see him in Washington as just kind of persona non grata, not of them?

DONNISON: Hamas has actually just been holding a conference here just down by the beach and their leader here, one of their main leaders, Mahmoud Zahar, was saying look, basically Abbas and his negotiating team shouldn’t be even there. When you speak to Hamas about the possibility of negotiating, they say well what’s the starting point for negotiations? And I think many Palestinians and the Israelis sort of say, well the starting point for negotiations would be the 1967 boundary. Well, for Hamas it isn’t that. They see the whole of what was once Palestine as being occupied by Israel in 1948 and their starting point is well, we need to be going back to that. So their point of view is well, the starting point of these negotiations is wrong and until that happens they’re not going to take part.

WERMAN: And what about Gazans, I mean the people who live in the Gaza Strip? Do they identify at all with Mahmoud Abbas? And do they also have any kind of like deep investment in Hamas these days?

DONNISON: Well, look there are divisions here and it is often that you meet people and they will say, I’m pro-Hamas or I’m anti-Hamas, but many people are just not that happy with any of their politicians. And the interesting thing that I found when I first came here was a lot of cafes you go to, restaurants, offices, you will see the picture of the former Palestinian president Yasser Arafat, of course a member of Fatah, displayed on the walls and I’d say, well, blimey, he’s still pretty popular here. And he is still pretty popular. He was a kind of figure who did seem to create a sort of unity amongst Palestinian people or at least far greater than Mahmoud Abbas has. You don’t see Mahmoud Abbas’ picture even though he is the Palestinian president hanging anywhere in Gaza to be honest. And I think even on the West Bank, there are many people who see him as someone who has compromised too much and has really backed down to a kind of consistently strong line taken by the Israelis where they’ve not been prepared to give ground and many Palestinians feel that he has.

WERMAN: The BBC’s Jon Donnison speaking with us from a busy Gaza City. Thanks so much, Jon.

DONNISON: My pleasure.

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