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Bob Dylan (Photo: Alberto Cabello)
The Chinese government is allowing folk legend Bob Dylan to perform for the first time ever this week, but with some strict guidelines. The man behind protest songs like “Hard Rain” and the anti-war anthem “Blowin’ in the Wind” played the first of two concerts today. Anchor Marco Werman speaks with Paul Stokes, the associate editor of NME magazine in London. Download MP3
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Marco Werman: “The times they are a’changin’,” and here’s proof. The Chinese government is allowing folk legend Bob Dylan to perform for the first time ever this week, but with some strict guidelines. The man behind protest songs like “A Hard Rain’s Gonna Fall” and the anti-war anthem “Blowin’ in the Wind” played the first of two concerts today. Paul Stokes is the associate editor of the music magazine NME, in London. Paul, first of all, how is it this is the first time Bob Dylan’s ever played in China?
Paul Stokes: Yeah. China’s been a bit of a strange one in this sort of live music circuit, in that it has become quite a lucrative place to play. There’s a lot ‘ex-pats,’ particularly in places like Shanghai, where you can go over and play gigs, but it’s kind of strange. You have to breach a certain level economically to make it work, and if you do that, then you can make a lot of money out of doing it. I think with Dylan it’s just been that case of getting to the point where there was enough demand and enough fever pitch that he could come over and play these really big shows in The Workers’ Gymnasium, which is a strange name for a venue if ever there was.
Werman: [laughs] Right. ‘Wham!’ was I think the first Western band to play China. They had that video shot on the Great wall. What are China’s considerations for whom to consider from the West, musician-wise, to let in. I mean, who has been turned down?
Stokes: Well, it was kind of quite open until Bjork played, and during a gig that she played, after her song “Declare Independence,” she just shouted, “Tibet! Tibet!” twice, which the Chinese, not so strangely, took as a political statement. And it’s ever since then they’ve actually really cracked down on what you can play and who can play. Now, when the Rolling Stones played in Shanghai, they were forced to drop songs like “Brown Sugar” and “Honky Tonk Woman,” because they were felt that they were inappropriate for the audience. So Jay Z was flatly refused to play because he swore too much, and Oasis, the British band, who weren’t allowed to play because Noel Gallagher once played a gig in America which was a pro-Tibet concert. Now, not only does Noel not particularly have any politics on the issue, he barely remembered playing the show. [laughter] But the Chinese cultural authority were able to dig it up and go, “No, no. You’re dangerous. You’re not allowed to come in.”
Werman: There’s this rock singer in China named Cui Jian who is kind of often dubbed ‘the Bob Dylan of China,’ but he’s old. I mean, he’s almost as old as Bob Dylan. How big of a fan base does Bob Dylan have in China?
Stokes: According to a lot of the local reports that I’ve read, you know, there is a bit of a ground swell for people who’ve wanted to see him for years. You don’t sell records in China. I think it’s quite a heavily bootlegged market, but there is that thing of wanting to see these people come and play live. And I think obviously, a lot of, because of Bob’s quite long career, a lot of sort of Chinese people will be aware of him and will want to go and see him play. I think the sad reality though of a lot of these gigs, as I’ve said, it’s a lot of ex-pats. After the Stones played, I remember Mick Jagger saying, “Well, it was good that the Chinese censor is keeping it nice and pure for all the bankers and their girlfriends who turned up to watch us play.” And I think there is a sense it’s a lot of the banking conglomerates who have bases there, it’s the people who work for them who can afford to go to these gigs, let alone sort of, the Chinese sort of people who may or may not be aware of the artists.
Werman: Right. So, here’s the other odd side of this story: why would Bob Dylan, the man who’s behind so many protest anthems, actually play China, which has a government that is steadfastly anti-protest?
Stokes: I think this is the awkward thing for all the sort of artists who have looked to play China. And it is this sort of two-speed economy that seems to be going on there. Obviously, with Hong Kong being re-integrated and, you know, a lot of other—say, the communities in Shanghai—there does seem to be this kind of divide, where you can go over as, you know, a rock and roll band, and play a set, and yet never touch the kind of wider, more communist China. I think for someone like Bob, it probably would have been something he would have considered, in how it would affect the perception of him. On one level, there is the argument that says if you go and play, you can subvert, in the way that Bjork did. On the other, some people might see this as just a big pay day for him.
Werman: Paul Stokes, the Associate Editor of NME, in London. Thanks very much for your time.
Stokes: No problem.
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