Phone-Hacking Fallout Hits Scotland Yard

The head of London’s police force, Sir Paul Stephenson resigned Sunday and the man who led the initial investigation into the unlawful hacking of telephone messages resigned Monday. Anchor Marco Werman talks to Chris Herbert, editor of the specialist magazine Jane’s Police Review, about the reputation of London’s Metropolitan Police Service.

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Marco Werman: As you’ve heard, the scandal surrounding alleged wrongdoing by Rupert Murdoch’s media empire has sullied the international image of London’s Metropolitan Police Service, or Scotland Yard. The head of the Metropolitan Police, Paul Stephenson, resigned yesterday and Assistant Commissioner John Yates stepped down today. These resignations, and other allegations of police corruption, come on top of previous scandals involving the Metropolitan Police. Chris Herbert is editor of the specialist magazine Jane’s Police Review, he’s in London. So Chris, corrupt, bad cops in Great Britain – it can’t be true. This is not the romantic image of the British police Americans have. What other scandals have the police there had to deal with in recent years?

Chris Herbert: There’s been various ones in recent years, mainly concerning allegations of racism. As far as romantic images go, of the Met, they’re probably as far away from Sherlock Holmes and that kind of thing as it’s possible to get, at the moment.

Werman: Now as we’ve said, Sir Paul Stephenson and his Assistant John Yates both stepped down. This was the reaction today from London Mayor Boris Johnson, who said their resignations were regrettable but unavoidable.

Boris Johnson: The whole thing added up to a problem, a problem of perceptions that was just going to go on and on. And he felt, as a guy who really loves, who  takes huge to pride in his job, who’s done a great deal of good, that he didn’t want to be endlessly sitting there answering enquiries, answering questions about phone hacking.

Werman: The Mayor mentioned “perception” there. What is the reputation of the Met in Britain? Is it already at a low point because of its recent past?

Herbert: You know, a few years ago the police had a very high reputation and they were trusted, generally speaking. Then there was a series of scandals over, sort of, 20/30 which severely dented the reputation of the police. But I think in the last few years they’ve done a lot to resurrect their reputation in the eyes of the public.

Werman: And Chris, remind us of the allegations, specifically as to how they pertain to the police, the Metropolitan Police. Why they’re so explosive that top cops are stepping down.

Herbert: So the allegations are that a number of officers at the Metropolitan Police go too close to senior executives at News International, which publishes the news of the World. And as a result, the investigation into the alleged phone hacking wasn’t as thorough as it could have been. John Yates, who stepped down today, was in charge of looking into whether the investigation should be reopened, and he concluded that it shouldn’t. So the allegation is that because of their close links to the papers that they decided not to look into the scandal more closely. So there’s been various things that have come out, creating this sort of perception of widespread ,sort of, bad practice at the top of the police force.

Werman: Police were essentially being paid by journalists, the allegations go, to provide tips and also to provide phone numbers, right, of people they could hack into?

Herbert: Yeah. I think it’s worth making the distinction between the senior officers, the ones who have stepped down, who are alleged to just have very close links with newspaper executives and in one case, actually employing one of the senior newspaper executives at Scotland Yard after he had left the paper. I think we need to draw the distinction between them and the allegations, the sort of criminal allegations against much lower ranking officers, that they sold information to papers, that they sold on their handbook containing phone details of the Royal family, for instance.

Werman: And for those lower ranking officers, I suppose their consequences are still to come, correct?

Herbert: Absolutely. And there’s a criminal investigation going on at the moment, into that.

Werman: How far or high will this scandal go? Do you think there’re going to be more high profile casualties? I mean, the British government today asked for a fresh inquiry into police corruption, so…

Herbert: I wonder how many more heads there are to roll, here in the police force? We’re in touch with officers constantly, and normally the people that have a general idea of what’s going on, are just way behind the headlines. And, you know, it’s moving so quickly that there’s no way that I think anyone can really predict where we’ll be tomorrow, let alone where we’ll be, you know, in a week, two weeks, a month. It’s the sort of situation that no one’s really seen before, over here.

Werman: Chris Herbert, editor of the specialist magazine Jane’s Police Review, on the implications of the tabloid scandal on London’s Metropolitan Police. Thank you very much for joining us, Chris.

Herbert: Pleasure.

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