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	<title>Comments on: On Not Responding to Climate Deniers, and What I&#8217;d Say If I Did</title>
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	<description>Global Perspectives for an American Audience</description>
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		<title>By: Russell Cook</title>
		<link>http://www.theworld.org/2012/06/on-climate-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-26324</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2012 22:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theworld.org/?p=126454#comment-26324</guid>
		<description>Surfed back in here now from the result of clicking on a 29 June Tweet I had about this &#039;no-debate debate&#039;.

Oh, Lordy, the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to changing the subject. Astute readers here will see Ben has still not refuted a single word I say about the smear of skeptics.

Regarding the &#039;sky dragon&#039; thing, I did Google search it just now, and the top result leads right back to Ben&#039;s comment above. I think I know who Ben is referring to, but am at a total loss of how on Earth he can establish that I have any association with those folks. Unless he thinks the free reproduction of my articles at sites having an association with them is supposed to somehow convict me.

He may decline my invitation to carefully examine the origins and people surrounding the long-term smear of skeptics all he wishes, but the continued failure to do so instead ends up looking like a combination of &#039;whistling past the graveyard&#039; and sheer negligence when it comes to asking due diligence questions on whether the fossil fuel funding corruption accusation actually holds water.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surfed back in here now from the result of clicking on a 29 June Tweet I had about this &#8216;no-debate debate&#8217;.</p>
<p>Oh, Lordy, the pot calling the kettle black when it comes to changing the subject. Astute readers here will see Ben has still not refuted a single word I say about the smear of skeptics.</p>
<p>Regarding the &#8216;sky dragon&#8217; thing, I did Google search it just now, and the top result leads right back to Ben&#8217;s comment above. I think I know who Ben is referring to, but am at a total loss of how on Earth he can establish that I have any association with those folks. Unless he thinks the free reproduction of my articles at sites having an association with them is supposed to somehow convict me.</p>
<p>He may decline my invitation to carefully examine the origins and people surrounding the long-term smear of skeptics all he wishes, but the continued failure to do so instead ends up looking like a combination of &#8216;whistling past the graveyard&#8217; and sheer negligence when it comes to asking due diligence questions on whether the fossil fuel funding corruption accusation actually holds water.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.theworld.org/2012/06/on-climate-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-25332</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jul 2012 02:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theworld.org/?p=126454#comment-25332</guid>
		<description>First, your raising the false issue of &quot;the smear of skeptical scientists&quot; is a transparent attempt to change the subject. Now THAT&#039;S a debate tactic!

But yes, let&#039;s all carefully analyze the statements of a attention-seeking retired graphic artist and self-described &quot;Mainstream Media doubter&quot; who was part of the nutbar &#039;sky dragon&#039; gang! (You&#039;ve really got to Google &#039;sky dragon&#039;.)

&quot;Decide for yourselves&quot; says Russell, but read an unscientific partisan response (for balance) every time you see a real scientific statement. Your tactic is to rely on repetition to overwhelm thought. If you tell someone &quot;1 + 1 = 3&quot; enough times you&#039;ll dull them into instinctively giving the same false answer.

Problem is all these ardently spouted &quot;skeptical&quot; perspectives drain down to the same willful partisan deceptions. After 20 or 30 attempts at trying to make sense of them you can pretty easily judge the book by the cover.

So I decline your daring suggestion that I let you lead me by the nose. Been there, done that, wanted the time back. Guess I wasn&#039;t suggestible enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, your raising the false issue of &#8220;the smear of skeptical scientists&#8221; is a transparent attempt to change the subject. Now THAT&#8217;S a debate tactic!</p>
<p>But yes, let&#8217;s all carefully analyze the statements of a attention-seeking retired graphic artist and self-described &#8220;Mainstream Media doubter&#8221; who was part of the nutbar &#8216;sky dragon&#8217; gang! (You&#8217;ve really got to Google &#8217;sky dragon&#8217;.)</p>
<p>&#8220;Decide for yourselves&#8221; says Russell, but read an unscientific partisan response (for balance) every time you see a real scientific statement. Your tactic is to rely on repetition to overwhelm thought. If you tell someone &#8220;1 + 1 = 3&#8243; enough times you&#8217;ll dull them into instinctively giving the same false answer.</p>
<p>Problem is all these ardently spouted &#8220;skeptical&#8221; perspectives drain down to the same willful partisan deceptions. After 20 or 30 attempts at trying to make sense of them you can pretty easily judge the book by the cover.</p>
<p>So I decline your daring suggestion that I let you lead me by the nose. Been there, done that, wanted the time back. Guess I wasn&#8217;t suggestible enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell Cook</title>
		<link>http://www.theworld.org/2012/06/on-climate-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-25322</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jul 2012 22:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theworld.org/?p=126454#comment-25322</guid>
		<description>Oh, hi Ben, I notice you guys back at Wottsup ( 
http://wottsupwiththat.com/2011/06/ ) couldn&#039;t refute what I said about 
the smear of skeptic climate scientists, either. Actually, I&#039;m not even asking for &#039;explicit&#039; refutes, something at least in the range of the good ol&#039; college try will suffice. So once again, is the very best you can do?



Astute readers here will readily see I don&#039;t &#039;repeat disproven claims&#039; 
but instead suggest in low-volume non-emotional tones for people to 
consider both sides and decide for themselves.



Aren&#039;t you worried that readers will compare what you say to what I say 
and conclude that you are the one relying on ill conceived debate 
tactics when it would be far more convincing to use science and logic to
 wipe out the skeptics when it comes to their assessments and the 
accusations against them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, hi Ben, I notice you guys back at Wottsup (<br />
<a href="http://wottsupwiththat.com/2011/06/" rel="nofollow">http://wottsupwiththat.com/2011/06/</a> ) couldn&#8217;t refute what I said about<br />
the smear of skeptic climate scientists, either. Actually, I&#8217;m not even asking for &#8216;explicit&#8217; refutes, something at least in the range of the good ol&#8217; college try will suffice. So once again, is the very best you can do?</p>
<p>Astute readers here will readily see I don&#8217;t &#8216;repeat disproven claims&#8217;<br />
but instead suggest in low-volume non-emotional tones for people to<br />
consider both sides and decide for themselves.</p>
<p>Aren&#8217;t you worried that readers will compare what you say to what I say<br />
and conclude that you are the one relying on ill conceived debate<br />
tactics when it would be far more convincing to use science and logic to<br />
 wipe out the skeptics when it comes to their assessments and the<br />
accusations against them?</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.theworld.org/2012/06/on-climate-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-25041</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2012 05:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theworld.org/?p=126454#comment-25041</guid>
		<description>So Russell... if every assertion you make isn&#039;t explicitly refuted, that&#039;s proof that it&#039;s true? Nope. You&#039;re confusing debating tactics (emotion, volume (both kinds...), repetition of disproven claims to sway the ill-informed, etc.) with science and logic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Russell&#8230; if every assertion you make isn&#8217;t explicitly refuted, that&#8217;s proof that it&#8217;s true? Nope. You&#8217;re confusing debating tactics (emotion, volume (both kinds&#8230;), repetition of disproven claims to sway the ill-informed, etc.) with science and logic.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.theworld.org/2012/06/on-climate-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-25040</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2012 05:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theworld.org/?p=126454#comment-25040</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s funny Joe, the chart of mine that you linked to highlights the lengths denialists like yourself will go to to mislead. To &lt;a href=&quot;//wottsupwiththat.com/2010/10/04/amopdo-temperature-variation-–-one-graph-says-it-all/}&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;quote myself&lt;/a&gt;, &quot;they chose their time period carefully so they could exclude the last ten years of warming that oppose the natural patterns. Then they smoothed the heck out of the data to artificially inflate the confidence of their results. Of course the AMO (detrended North Atlantic SST anomalies) and PDO (principal component analysis North Pacific SST anomalies, north of 20N) are incompatible values, so we have to wonder why they are combined. One graph does indeed say it all…&quot; And even after all your jiggling, all you did was notice a correlation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s funny Joe, the chart of mine that you linked to highlights the lengths denialists like yourself will go to to mislead. To <a href="//wottsupwiththat.com/2010/10/04/amopdo-temperature-variation-–-one-graph-says-it-all/}" rel="nofollow">quote myself</a>, &#8220;they chose their time period carefully so they could exclude the last ten years of warming that oppose the natural patterns. Then they smoothed the heck out of the data to artificially inflate the confidence of their results. Of course the AMO (detrended North Atlantic SST anomalies) and PDO (principal component analysis North Pacific SST anomalies, north of 20N) are incompatible values, so we have to wonder why they are combined. One graph does indeed say it all…&#8221; And even after all your jiggling, all you did was notice a correlation.</p>
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		<title>By: JimmySD</title>
		<link>http://www.theworld.org/2012/06/on-climate-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-25004</link>
		<dc:creator>JimmySD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2012 10:30:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theworld.org/?p=126454#comment-25004</guid>
		<description>Stanley,

I have a degree in Biology.

If you have a problem with it take me to court.

Please &quot;bring me to justice&quot;. I&#039;d love to square off with you in a courtroom. I won&#039;t travel to Seattle to do it, but if you&#039;d like I&#039;ll gladly give you my contact information so you can file a suit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stanley,</p>
<p>I have a degree in Biology.</p>
<p>If you have a problem with it take me to court.</p>
<p>Please &#8220;bring me to justice&#8221;. I&#8217;d love to square off with you in a courtroom. I won&#8217;t travel to Seattle to do it, but if you&#8217;d like I&#8217;ll gladly give you my contact information so you can file a suit.</p>
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		<title>By: JimmySD</title>
		<link>http://www.theworld.org/2012/06/on-climate-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-25003</link>
		<dc:creator>JimmySD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jul 2012 10:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theworld.org/?p=126454#comment-25003</guid>
		<description>Absolutely Priceless Joe!!!

You posted a graph that makes fun of Anthony Watts and global warming deniers like you?

Is it spelled watt or wot?

Good job!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely Priceless Joe!!!</p>
<p>You posted a graph that makes fun of Anthony Watts and global warming deniers like you?</p>
<p>Is it spelled watt or wot?</p>
<p>Good job!</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Schmidt</title>
		<link>http://www.theworld.org/2012/06/on-climate-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-24958</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Schmidt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 16:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theworld.org/?p=126454#comment-24958</guid>
		<description>Joe Bastardi predicted in 2010 that Arctic sea ice would &quot;recover dramatically&quot; in 2011 back up to 2005 levels (which by the way were very low):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G-ozEvSFVg 

That of course was completely wrong, and 2011 was almost a tie with record-low 2007.

I sure hope no one makes a copyright claim to disappear that Youtube clip of Bastardi&#039;s prediction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe Bastardi predicted in 2010 that Arctic sea ice would &#8220;recover dramatically&#8221; in 2011 back up to 2005 levels (which by the way were very low):</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G-ozEvSFVg " rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G-ozEvSFVg </a></p>
<p>That of course was completely wrong, and 2011 was almost a tie with record-low 2007.</p>
<p>I sure hope no one makes a copyright claim to disappear that Youtube clip of Bastardi&#8217;s prediction.</p>
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		<title>By: Russell Cook</title>
		<link>http://www.theworld.org/2012/06/on-climate-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-24954</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell Cook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2012 01:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theworld.org/?p=126454#comment-24954</guid>
		<description>Doesn&#039;t it undermine your position somewhat when you make literally no attempt to refute a single word I say? Regarding my article I link to, I did make the attempt to place it at the Huffington Post, a left-wing &#039;repository&#039; for screeds against President Bush, straights and others.

If I could, I&#039;d have my articles placed at every such left-wing site there is. So, if this is the best you can do, that doesn&#039;t exactly work in your favor, does it?

I&#039;m already fully aware of what it says at the NASA site. Are you fully aware of how it is contradicted by what skeptic climate scientists have to say? I have no expertise to say which side is right, but as I have abundantly shown in my articles, the manner in which we are told to ignore the skeptics is highly questionable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doesn&#8217;t it undermine your position somewhat when you make literally no attempt to refute a single word I say? Regarding my article I link to, I did make the attempt to place it at the Huffington Post, a left-wing &#8216;repository&#8217; for screeds against President Bush, straights and others.</p>
<p>If I could, I&#8217;d have my articles placed at every such left-wing site there is. So, if this is the best you can do, that doesn&#8217;t exactly work in your favor, does it?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m already fully aware of what it says at the NASA site. Are you fully aware of how it is contradicted by what skeptic climate scientists have to say? I have no expertise to say which side is right, but as I have abundantly shown in my articles, the manner in which we are told to ignore the skeptics is highly questionable.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh Markey</title>
		<link>http://www.theworld.org/2012/06/on-climate-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-24952</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh Markey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2012 21:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theworld.org/?p=126454#comment-24952</guid>
		<description>Mr. Cook, 

While your comment is carefully worded, I took the time to read through some of the stories on American Thinker.  This site is a repository for right wing screeds against the President, gays, and others your site mocks for being liberal.  &quot;Thinker&quot;  is an example of what Thomson meant when he wrote: &quot; Saying “some people believe” that levels of CO2 in the atmosphere affect the climate system is as absurd as saying that “some people believe” in evolution by natural selection or that “some people believe” in the laws of motion, gravity, thermodynamics, etc. 

This is another case of politicizing science, pure and simple.  

Take a look at what that wacky group of crazy scientists at NASA have to say on the issue of climate change: http://climate.nasa.gov/ </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr. Cook, </p>
<p>While your comment is carefully worded, I took the time to read through some of the stories on American Thinker.  This site is a repository for right wing screeds against the President, gays, and others your site mocks for being liberal.  &#8221;Thinker&#8221;  is an example of what Thomson meant when he wrote: &#8220; Saying “some people believe” that levels of CO2 in the atmosphere affect the climate system is as absurd as saying that “some people believe” in evolution by natural selection or that “some people believe” in the laws of motion, gravity, thermodynamics, etc. </p>
<p>This is another case of politicizing science, pure and simple.  </p>
<p>Take a look at what that wacky group of crazy scientists at NASA have to say on the issue of climate change: <a href="http://climate.nasa.gov/ " rel="nofollow">http://climate.nasa.gov/ </a></p>
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		<title>By: Eli Rabett</title>
		<link>http://www.theworld.org/2012/06/on-climate-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-24940</link>
		<dc:creator>Eli Rabett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2012 19:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theworld.org/?p=126454#comment-24940</guid>
		<description>Well, the problem with claiming that CO2 high in the atmosphere where it is colder cannot radiate energy that is absorbed by the warmer earth is simply that the radiation has been observed for over 100 years, with increasing sophistication, but observed early in the 20th century none the less.  Those who are interested can read about &lt;a href=&quot;http://rabett.blogspot.com/2011/01/fourier-and-greenhouse.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fourier&#039;s pioneering work&lt;/a&gt; in the 1820s in what probably is the earliest paper on this.  Those interested in reading about a modern version of this work, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.agu.org/journals/gl/gl1210/2012GL051542/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;can read about it here&lt;/a&gt;

The net of this is that the net rate (emission minus absorption) that energy is radiated is lower then it would be without the greenhouse gases and that the surface is warmer than it would be without greenhouse gases.

Roy Spencer &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.drroyspencer.com/2010/07/first-results-from-the-box-investigating-the-effects-of-infrared-sky-radiation-on-air-temperature/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;set up a simple experiment&lt;/a&gt; to show this, and given the wall of denial he ran into (see the comments), anyone claiming that those in denial about climate change believe in the greenhouse effect, is simply blowing smoke.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the problem with claiming that CO2 high in the atmosphere where it is colder cannot radiate energy that is absorbed by the warmer earth is simply that the radiation has been observed for over 100 years, with increasing sophistication, but observed early in the 20th century none the less.  Those who are interested can read about <a href="http://rabett.blogspot.com/2011/01/fourier-and-greenhouse.html" rel="nofollow">Fourier&#8217;s pioneering work</a> in the 1820s in what probably is the earliest paper on this.  Those interested in reading about a modern version of this work, <a href="http://www.agu.org/journals/gl/gl1210/2012GL051542/" rel="nofollow">can read about it here</a></p>
<p>The net of this is that the net rate (emission minus absorption) that energy is radiated is lower then it would be without the greenhouse gases and that the surface is warmer than it would be without greenhouse gases.</p>
<p>Roy Spencer <a href="http://www.drroyspencer.com/2010/07/first-results-from-the-box-investigating-the-effects-of-infrared-sky-radiation-on-air-temperature/" rel="nofollow">set up a simple experiment</a> to show this, and given the wall of denial he ran into (see the comments), anyone claiming that those in denial about climate change believe in the greenhouse effect, is simply blowing smoke.  </p>
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		<title>By: RDD1</title>
		<link>http://www.theworld.org/2012/06/on-climate-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-24931</link>
		<dc:creator>RDD1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 17:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theworld.org/?p=126454#comment-24931</guid>
		<description>Oh...do you believe that the CO2 cannot possibly force a GH effect as Bastardi contends? Do you think this long accepted, emperically confirmed concept violates the first law of thermodynamics as Bastardi claims? Really? Regardless of sensitivity being 1 or 3 deg C? And  Bastardi&#039;s &quot;logic&quot; would also be applicalbe to H2O. I think his embarressing display is just another case of a &quot;skeptic&#039;s&quot; poor arguement constructed and presented in a vaccum,  fooling those that live in the vaccum, but falling apart outside of it. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh&#8230;do you believe that the CO2 cannot possibly force a GH effect as Bastardi contends? Do you think this long accepted, emperically confirmed concept violates the first law of thermodynamics as Bastardi claims? Really? Regardless of sensitivity being 1 or 3 deg C? And  Bastardi&#8217;s &#8220;logic&#8221; would also be applicalbe to H2O. I think his embarressing display is just another case of a &#8220;skeptic&#8217;s&#8221; poor arguement constructed and presented in a vaccum,  fooling those that live in the vaccum, but falling apart outside of it. </p>
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		<title>By: RDD1</title>
		<link>http://www.theworld.org/2012/06/on-climate-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-24930</link>
		<dc:creator>RDD1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2012 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theworld.org/?p=126454#comment-24930</guid>
		<description>&quot;a pity for your sad diatribe that Joe Bastardi has had such success at forecasting weather&quot;

based on his understanding of atomospheric physics, Bastardi should stay with his area of expertise (meteorolgoy). This is not an insult, it&#039;s a reminder that one can&#039;t just make stuff up becuase it&#039;s what you want to believe and expect those that see the laughable error/ logic to ignore it. Even in the managerie of professional skeptics, I would bet that those that do understand climate, like Roy Spencer (&quot;God&#039;s clouds will save us&quot;), Lindzen (&quot;the &#039;iris&#039; will save us&quot;), or Pat Michaels (&quot;climate sensitivety is low, trust me, we will set a new LS temp record soon, but it&#039;ll be OK&quot;) cringed when they heard Bastardi&#039;s comedy routine. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;a pity for your sad diatribe that Joe Bastardi has had such success at forecasting weather&#8221;</p>
<p>based on his understanding of atomospheric physics, Bastardi should stay with his area of expertise (meteorolgoy). This is not an insult, it&#8217;s a reminder that one can&#8217;t just make stuff up becuase it&#8217;s what you want to believe and expect those that see the laughable error/ logic to ignore it. Even in the managerie of professional skeptics, I would bet that those that do understand climate, like Roy Spencer (&#8220;God&#8217;s clouds will save us&#8221;), Lindzen (&#8220;the &#8216;iris&#8217; will save us&#8221;), or Pat Michaels (&#8220;climate sensitivety is low, trust me, we will set a new LS temp record soon, but it&#8217;ll be OK&#8221;) cringed when they heard Bastardi&#8217;s comedy routine. </p>
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		<title>By: smileyken</title>
		<link>http://www.theworld.org/2012/06/on-climate-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-24926</link>
		<dc:creator>smileyken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2012 23:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theworld.org/?p=126454#comment-24926</guid>
		<description> a pity for your sad diatribe that Joe Bastardi has had such success at forecasting weather</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> a pity for your sad diatribe that Joe Bastardi has had such success at forecasting weather</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: RDD1</title>
		<link>http://www.theworld.org/2012/06/on-climate-deniers/comment-page-1/#comment-24909</link>
		<dc:creator>RDD1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2012 15:32:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.theworld.org/?p=126454#comment-24909</guid>
		<description>apologies for the double entry - I was registering to post and thought the first entry disappeared, so I re-entered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>apologies for the double entry &#8211; I was registering to post and thought the first entry disappeared, so I re-entered.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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