The French View of Affirmative Action

While the US Supreme Court reconsiders affirmative action in the United States, we explore how France has been dealing with that issue.

Time magazine’s Paris correspondent Vivienne Walt says the notion of affirmative action is taboo in France, where the law does not permit to record census statistics on people’s ethnic background or specifying race when applying to a school.

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Marco Werman: Now to a country with a very different approach to affirmative action – France. Vivienne Walt lives in Paris and writes for Time Magazine. Vivienne, we’ve heard that the idea of affirmative action somehow goes against the French ethos. Tell us what that means and if it’s even true.

Vivienne Walt: Well, it actually is very true and it’s a very fundamental difference between Americans and French people, something which always surprises me and surprises a lot of American here. The whole notion of affirmative action is regarded as very taboo in France. This is a country which is very much based on the principle of “égalité”, the fact that everybody that is supposedly very equal under the law, and that means that legally it’s actually permitted to even count people’s ethnicities when you’re taking the national census, when you’re filling out any form, particularly if your applying to college or school, things which, of course, cut right to the heart of what the supreme court case is about in the US.

Werman: Well, that’s kind of surreal to say that racism is not supposed to exist under the law, therefore we don’t need laws for it.

Walt: Well, the funny thing is, of course, the French and the Americans all seek to end up in the same place. I mean they are both societies which are based on the same universal values of freedom and liberty and equality, and yet they come at it with completely different ways of getting there. The French have a very idealistic view, they believe that everybody has exactly the same [??], and yet in reality it doesn’t work out that way. You only need to interview people who’ve been looking for jobs, for example, and they’ll tell you that if they have an Arabic name or a name which gives them away as coming from Africa, they simply don’t get interviewed. And this cuts right across French society. Its on daily life. Even here in Paris, which is a fairly progressive city, it’s really remarkable from American eyes, how racially separate it is.

Werman: I mean many French commentators have even noticed the lack of ethnic minorities among the French elite and minorities complain about this all the time, I know, in France. Why isn’t there anything being done about it legally?

Walt: Well, I’ll give you a personal example. I mean we have one child at a French private school, possibly one of the most progressive school in Paris, and it was very striking to me when we put him in there there were really almost no black people, if any. And when I asked French friends about this they were horrified by the question and they felt that there was really no need for any kind of diversity program or affirmative action program, that this is something that would simply evolve naturally. And, from a French perspective, if you single people out on the basis of race what you’re doing is furthering racism. This is an endless, endless argument in this country and it’s very much a kind of political live wire if you like. It’s something which nobody wants to tread on. Francois Hollande has made a very a very diverse cabinet, also a cabinet that’s half women by the way, but he refuses to talk openly about whether or not he would like legal changes in terms of instituting some kind of diversification program.

Werman: And, Vivienne, if you were going to suggest to the French government, to Francois Hollande, to look somewhere around the world for some ideas on affirmative action, where would you point him to?

Walt: Well, probably the US, although who knows how the supreme court case will wind up.

Werman: Vivienne Walt lives in Paris and writes for Time Magazine. Vivienne, thank you as always.

Walt: You’re welcome.

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