H-1B Skilled-Worker Visas Under Fire

App Academy students (Photo: Sam Harnett)

At App Academy, located in San Francisco, students learn enough web development to qualify for an entry-level programming job in nine weeks. (Photo: Sam Harnett)

With April nearing, many people in the US are concerned about the tax deadline, but for Kriti Bajaj the month brings a different anxiety—deportation. Bajaj comes from India, but she is not in the US illegally. She is actually a Stanford University graduate in biology. But now, if Bajaj can’t find a sponsor for a visa before April 1st, then she must leave the country. Bajaj’s only chance to stay here is an H-1B, the US visa for high-skilled foreign labor.

But as Bajaj struggles with her personal immigration problem, the US is attempting to resolve its own. Congress will soon weigh legislation that nearly quadruples the number of H-1B visas offered. Part of the reasoning is that more skilled-worker visas keep America at the top of the tech-food chain. But the proposal is not without controversy, mostly from older US-born programmers who feel displaced by foreign workers. Reporter Sam Harnett has this story.

Kriti Bajaj thought she had figured her life out. She studied biology, graduated from Stanford University, and then moved back to India, her home country, to pursue a Ph.D. After one year, Bajaj realized she had made a big mistake. Academia just wasn’t for her.

“There’s too many unknowns,” she says. “Nothing was working. I was in this dark little cell in the middle of nowhere.”

Bajaj ditched biology and decided to restart her life as a computer programmer back in California. So now she is back in California, in San Francisco on a tourist visa, and enrolled in an intensive coding camp called App Academy, one of many new, intensive coding camps that teach web development from scratch.

One main reason Bajaj chose App Academy is because she can complete its nine-week course before her tourist visa runs out. She hopes to build tech skills through the program fast and then find a company that will sponsor her for an H-1B visa.

But some say if she is employed on an H-1B she will rob a job from an American.

“If she’s being hired for an H-1B visa based on nine weeks of programming work, then it’s an abuse of the visa,” says Norm Matloff, who teaches computer science at the University of California, Davis.

Matloff claims companies use H-1B visas to replace older, US programmers with younger, cheaper foreigners like Bajaj. “The abuse is widespread across the board,” he says. “Mainstream, household name firms are abusing the program.”

The modern H-1B debuted in 1990 as temporary, three-year-visas for high-skilled workers. The US currently issues 85,000 H-1Bs a year—and companies snap them up fast.

Soon, Congress will debate whether to increase that quota to 300,000. Technology giants like Microsoft support the move, saying the US has a shortage of skilled workers. At a Congressional hearing in 2009, Bill Gates said, “My basic view is that the country should welcome as many of those people as we can get.” He advocated issuing H-1Bs and eliminating any caps.

Gate’s stance is a familiar one. Many argue that the US must raise its H-1B quota in order to snag the best and brightest international talent, or else they will innovate in other countries. But a closer examination of H-1B visas reveals a more muddled picture.

Last year, nearly half of the H-1B visas went to companies like Infosys and Wipro, not marquee companies like Google and Microsoft. Companies such as Infosys are the workhorses of Silicon Valley, large IT firms that churn out the industry’s unglamorous connective tissue: things like boilerplate coding, user support, and network maintenance.

So, why does the US need to import labor for this lower-skilled work? Matloff says it has to do with wages and immobility. He argues that since employers sponsor H-1Bs visas, foreigners have a limited ability to negotiate higher salaries or switch jobs. If they do manage to change employers, it means they must restart any green card applications. Matloff says these realities “handcuff” H-1B visa holders to their employers.

Ardit Bajraktari, a 32-year-old from Albania, has another phrase for it: indentured servitude.

Mobile developer Ardit Bajraktari (Photo: Sam Harnett)

Mobile developer Ardit Bajraktari says working on an H-1B is like indentured servitude. (Photo: Sam Harnett)

Bajraktari is a highly sought after mobile developer in Silicon Valley. He has been programming software for mobile phones since the early 2000s, back when touch screens were still the sci-fi fantasies of Star Trek fans.

Like many programmers in the Bay Area, Bajraktari has hopped around—working at places like MobiTV, Yammer, and Amazon. “If you want to keep your skill set up to date,” he says, “you have to move companies.”

But unlike his US co-workers, every time Bajraktari switches jobs he loses his visa sponsorship and risks deportation. “It’s like you have a sword on your neck,” he says, “you have to find a job.”

Bajraktari has been trying to get a green card for more than a decade. He came to the US at age 17, and worked dutifully ever since without a major break in employment, all without securing a green card.

Bajraktari quest for a green card has been complicated. MobiTV, one of his earliest employers, pursued the application as promised, but Bajraktari’s limited work experience left his application stalled for years.

He eventually took a job at Amazon, in part because of a promise to expedite his application. At that point, he had gained enough experience to move his green card request along quickly.

Yet Bajraktari said that it took Amazon nearly two years to start moving his paperwork. The grinding bureaucracy reminded Bajraktari of Albania under communism. “To make things move forward you have to threaten your company that you’re not going to work anymore,” he says, “it becomes a weird, weird situation.”

Salaries can also get complicated. Because the company controls the visa process, employees can feel forced to remain silent about unequal pay or else risk their immigration status. It happened to Bajraktari at his first job, and it’s happening to Steve now. “I’m being paid less,” he says, “which sucks for me, and it also sucks for American developers because I am a threat to them. I am cheaper.”

Steve requested not to use his real name. If he is fired, he could be deported back to the UK. He says that not long after signing on to California software firm, he noticed that he was paid 10 to 20 percent less than his American co-workers doing the same job. “Maybe it’s just naivety on my part,” he says, “but [I] definitely feel like they low-balled me and I was just like, ‘Oh, sure, okay.”

Norm Matloff says the first reform for H-1Bs should be to ensure that foreign employees receive competitive salaries, high enough to prove that companies need them. Matloff also advocates to end the handcuffing. Bajraktari agrees. “The H-1B holder should be able to do the green card petition himself, so you’re not the slave of your company,” he says.

In the meantime, Bajraktari is once again looking for a new employer.

He would like to work at a start-up. But it’s too risky. If they go under or get bought out, Bajraktari would have to restart the green card process.

So instead he’s considering offers from large tech companies. He hopes that one of them will come through with a green card. After 10 years of working in the US legally he says, he would like to enjoy the same professional freedoms as his US colleagues.

Discussion

141 comments for “H-1B Skilled-Worker Visas Under Fire”

  • Virgil Bierschwale

    Bajraktari, email me at vbiersch at gmailLet’s talk about doing our part to Keep America At Work

    For those who have seen their jobs go offshore, or seen visa holders take your job, I want to tell your story at Keep America At Work.

    We need to do our part to keep all of us at work and find a way to put the corrupt ones in jail like this story that I just posted.

    http://keepamericaatwork.com/archives/210476

    Bottom line, it will take all of us (Citizen, Immigrant) working together to bring opportunity for all back to America.

    It is way past time that we found a way to do that.

  • Marnie Dunsmore

    I recently attended a “Women who Code” get together here in San Francisco.  There is no shortage of young Americans trying to break into “app” coding through courses like “App Academy”.

    I am wondering why PRI didn’t interview Americans who are attempting to break into the field of app coding, who also usually are encountering significant economic struggles.

    Also, app writing is only one very tiny area among STEM fields.  It is one of the very few where there is currently demand.  What about all those Chemistry and Biology PhDs who are out of work.  Where’s the NPR story on that?

  • http://us-voter.myopenid.com/ Sam

    Spend 9 weeks learning programming from scratch on a tourist visa (that couldn’t get one too far beyond “printf”), and then play the system to get a job in the U.S.? It’s a wonderful world… if you’re a foreigner.

    Actually, I too could be a foreigner if – as a U.S. citizen – I left the U.S. for work… but oh yeah: pretty much no foreign country will hire American workers, so I’m stuck here.

    At the 2009 Congressional hearing referred to in this article, Bill Gates lied to Congress. He misrepresented that Microsoft’s H-1B jobs for new graduates with no experience “start at about $100,000 per year.”  In fact in fiscal year 2006 only 12.4% of Microsoft’s LCAs for H-1Bs paid $100k or more, and these were for directors, managers, and legal counsel rather than for new graduates.

    The H-1B program is primarily used to import young, cheaper labor from developing countries for technical and engineering work; displacing many U.S. citizens from their professions or discouraging them from entering their previously-chosen profession. It is NOT typically used to bring in the “best and brightest” minds. According to a January 14 2011 GAO report, most of the H-1B workers are categorized as having only entry-level skills. The program is also plagued by rampant fraud, which the government has only recently begun to address. But fraud is not the biggest problem: the loopholes are.

    Suggested reading (please google):

    Economic Policy Institute, October 14, 2010 The H-1B and L-1 Visa programs: Out of Control

    Economic Policy Institute, November 19, 2012 STEM labor shortages? Microsoft report distorts reality about computing occupations

    U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO), Jan 14, 2011 H-1B Visa Program: Reforms Are Needed to Minimize the Risks and Costs of Current Program

    ComputerWorld – Fed indictments tell how H-1B visas were used to undercut wages

    BusinessWeek – Work Visas May Work Against the U.S.

    BusinessWeek – America’s High-Tech Sweatshops

    • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

       Touché.

    • The_Madness_Must_Stop

       awesome !!!!!

    • SamHarnett

      This is the reporter, Sam –

      I just wanted to chime in on Kriti’s story. I found her interesting because Kriti wont be relying solely on her nine week experience at App Academy to find a job. She also graduated from Stanford University, and if she had not returned to India, she would most probably been able to stay in the US through OPT and then on an H1B visa in the biology field. Because she went back to India after college and now wants to change fields, her immigration status is very tricky. Should it be that hard for a Stanford graduate to stay in the country?

      Also, a note on App Academy. It, like many of these new bootcamps, is a highly selective program. Part of the fee structure actually relies on students getting jobs, which means App Academy has to only pick students who will get hired to sustain itself. Applicants may have limited programming experience, but they are extremely bright and motivated.

      • John80224

        Would you say that both Kriti and the boot camp are fairly unique?  I worry that for every one of each there are a number more similar but not nearly as special stories that are finding a way to hang around.  I don’t fault them for following their dreams, but I do fault my government for supporting such dreams while my once reality has reverted back to a dream.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roy-Lawson/670514336 Roy Lawson

        “Also, a note on App Academy. It, like many of these new bootcamps, is a highly selective program. Part of the fee structure actually relies on students getting jobs, which means App Academy has to only pick students who will get hired to sustain itself. Applicants may have limited programming experience, but they are extremely bright and motivated.”

        Didn’t read this part before.  I still think some people (like Kriti) will not be successful but maybe someone with related (transferable) skills could be with a program like App Academy.  One of my comments was perhaps harsh on this program.  To be fair I think programs like this could be very beneficial.  My doubt however is when it comes to people starting with nothing.  No computer science or no related experience under the belt.  Heck, even help desk or something.  I hate to see school administrators rake in millions while their students have nothing to show for.  So if they can show a proven record that would go a long way (at least with my singular opinion).

        I’m doubtful because this is what I’ve done for a living many years.  I’d like to see some of their success stories and also some of their failure stories to understand what type of people could be at least marginally successful after a 9 week program and what type of skills or experience they had prior to attending.

        • SamHarnett

          Good points Roy. I’ll add that these camps aren’t turning out all star programmers, but instead very, very basic level web developers. 

          Most boast high job placement rates. But then again, they are a new thing right now. Hard to say if it’s just a trend.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roy-Lawson/670514336 Roy Lawson

            Thanks for reporting it none the less.  Certainly something for us to keep an eye on.  I’m dubious but there were probably alot of good ideas I was dubious about in the past that turned out to be great.  Twitter. 

            The proof is in the pudding.  We’ll need to see a track record to arrive at more concrete conclusions.  I’m for anything that can help people become better at this in a reasonable amount of time, but I also wouldn’t want to give people false hope or flood the market with low quality and undertrained workers.  It’s not like we have licensing like doctors or lawyers so fly by nights could scar our reputations if we aren’t careful.

            So long as these programs improve our reputation and our abilities I could get behind them.  Is there an independent group monitoring these programs and tracking their success rate?  I’d like to know what data are out there, and who produces them.

      • http://www.facebook.com/joe.barnaby.3 Joe Barnaby

        Why are you shilling for the outsourcing industry? The VAST MAJORITY of h-1bs work in the outsourcing industry!

  • http://twitter.com/dmconroy Donna Conroy

    Sam, I’m surprised that you did not inform your listeners how the H1-b program impacts Americans–especially since it airs weekdays on over 300 stations across North America. 

    Since PRI is co-production of WGBH/Boston and the BBC World Service, it’s a serious error of omission to neglect to tell your American listeners–and those around the globe–that this program does not require employers to first seek local American talent first for their job openings in America.  It’s a serious error of omission on your part, since your email to me indicated that you heard National Public Radio’s correction on this point.  There is substantial confusion on this point; this is another urgent reason not to omit this point.

    You mentioned to me in an email that our goal was to produce a piece that dug deeper than the NPR segment, which told Americans that, “In 2010, the Civil Rights Division of the Justice Department recommended
    that all employers be required to test the U.S. labor market before
    seeking H1-B workers.”

    I trust that you will continue to cover this topic, especially addressing the discriminatory want ads we Americans face on American job portals for American job openings as a result of the H1-b program.

    I understand it is hard–and embarrassing–to see this discrimination exercised so brazenly–especially when you are an American yourself.  I look forward to working with you.

    Donna Conroy
    Brightfuturejobs.com

  • ITGURU99

    I support American workers trying to get back to work, many of them with years of experience. Until all these American workers are back at work I will feel no sympathy for any H1B workers. All of your interviewees talk as if they are ENTITLED to work here and that is not the case. They should get down and kiss the earth they stand on here. Actually the young woman who is here on a Tourist visa should be deported because she is actually a ‘student’ and not a tourist. That is considered LYING about your visa status.

    And you did not present the fact that ALL H1B visas are supposed to be for a limited status for a limited time. The selling point of the visas to them when in their home country is they have the opportunity to make more money than they would in their home country. As one of the previous commenters said,  there are plenty of US graduates who would like to get a job and these people on H1Bs are taking those jobs.

    And there is no guarantee of obtaining a green card by coming here on an H1B visa. These people need to get in line BEHIND all those applying legally to come here. And the reason they can only work at companies like INFOSYS, WIPRO and the like is that those companies came here to establish ‘company presence’ in order to be able to bring people over to work. Those companies have also been under fire for only hiring a few ‘token’ US citizens as well.

    We in the IT profession are tired of these people being represented as put upon. And many lies have been told to try and increase the H1B visas numbers.  You were not fair in representing their problems as you did and I hope someone turns in the person who lied about her purpose in coming her on a Tourist visa with the intention to apply for work.

    • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

      What started as a small limited, augmentation program for the American workforce has turned into a permanent free-for-all for any all foreigners who want to rob jobs in America.

      The other thing no one talks about is that most of these young people went to schools in other countries in which they were brainwashed that all Americans are evil, we stole everything, we owe the world, etc. They come here with this anti-American attitude and a deep deep need to see to it that Americans stay unemployed.

      Case in point:

      http://www.linkedin.com/pub/tascha-babitch/36/b5b/3ba

    • ollieallears

      If the goverment agency handling the H1B petition uses its eyes, brain, and applies US law, she should be ineligible for a work visa. The certificate from the academy must have a date. That date coincides with the dates on her tourist visa, or is dated shortly after. She did not obey the rules of the B visa. Had she told what she was planning she would not have gotten that visa.

      If the App Academy advertises itself as a seminar or whatever it should be cited and fined as it is breaking the law. It could transform itself into a school and issue DS 2013 forms, those wishing to attend could then apply for a J-1 visa.

      If Kriti has an MS in biology and is good in writing software, there is probably a co. in the US that needs her. So when the H1B program is overhauled, solutions to bring in really talented people instead of the many lower entry and mid-level workers that are allowed in now, too many too often, should be implemented.

      Bajraktari, he is ‘vicitmized’ by dishonest US employers, who promised and promise but do not deliver. And B. pays the price. From what I read he has really proven himself and does not deserve this treatment. The possibility to self-petition for a green card should exist. And for those who start to cry ‘foul’, being allowed to petiton does not mean that petition is granted.

  • http://twitter.com/PaulHerzog3 Paul Herzog

    This story is a bit fishy.  First of all, to obtain an H-1B visa, the foreign must have at least a four year degree in the field for which their being hired-in this case, computer science.  The employer must demonstrate that they are paying the prevailing wage. And unlike with US workers, if they hire a foreign worker in this program, the US company must pay filing fees of up to $2300-and that doesn’t include attorney fees.  Employers that hire lots of H-1B workers must file paperwork showing that they have not displaced US workers.  None of that is mentioned here.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jake-Leone/1380558892 Jake Leone

      There are no such requirements.  U.S. Secretary of labor has said (and the law does state), an H-1b worker may be hired, even if there is a qualified U.S. citizen that wants the job.  And these jobs are very desirable, very nice. 

      The requirement is that the worker only have a bachelors degree, practically any degree will suffice, for any job.  So this person, if she obtains a job, will be able to in fact replace a U.S. citizen doing the same job.  And she is more desirable, because she is indentured, and will not leave her job for fear of deportation.

      As a U.S. citizen, It is Unconstitutional for me to enter in a similar agreement with a U.S. employer.   Because supposedly, slavery (and indentureship) ended in the 19th century, only nobody told Congress apparently.

      U.S. Department of Labor has found that H-1b workers are typically paid 25% less than their native counter parts.  And, as shown by one of the interviewees, who was being paid far less than his U.S. citizen counterparts, and seemed rather sad about it.

      So a fixed fee, of any kind, is nothing compared to the cost savings of an engineer on an H-1b.  Average engineer pay in the U.S. is 60k, so that’s a saving of at least 10-15k per year.  And that savings can go on for 6 years (or more).

      More than 35,000 H-1b visas were used by Off Shore outsourcing companies, and that number is growing exponentially, despite increased fees.  The outsourcing companies remove jobs at all pay-grades.  One engineer in the United States, can be liason for a hundred workers offshore.  This foolish program is being used to facilitate the removal of jobs from the United States, and is doing untold damage to our economy.

      Why do we allow the whining of tech executives ruin the economy for all americans?

      • Marnie Dunsmore

        Due to various trade agreements and exemptions, the number of H-1Bs issued in FY2010 and 2011 was about 120,000.  It has been at this level since 2004. 

        For FY 2001, 2002 and 2003, the cap was set at 195,000 and the actual number of H-1Bs issued was well above 195,000 for these years. 

        Most of the H-1B visa holders that came here since 1998 are still here.  Some have obtained legal resident status through marriage to a US citizen or through their employer.  However, over 500,000 H-1B holders are still here on H-1B visas.  Adding up the numbers, since FY1998, almost 2 million foreign STEM professionals have entered the US workforce starting on an H-1B visa.  A few have left, but not many.

        Two million people might not seem like much, given that the US population is three hundred million people.  However, when you consider that the total size of the STEM workforce is not more than 8 million people, it is a very significant number:

        “In 2011, 3,608,000 workers were employed in computer and mathematical occupations, while 2,785,000 were employed in architecture and engineering occupations and 1,303,000 in life, physical, and social science occupations. Together they accounted for 24.8 percent of the professional labor force.”

        http://dpeaflcio.org/wp-content/uploads/The-STEM-workforce-2012.pdf

        When you consider that they are now talking about increasing the H-1B visa cap to 300,000, which will invariably, due to exemptions exceed 400,000, you are talking about displacing half of the STEM workforce in less than ten years.

        • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

          We are still reeling from the Clinton increases in 1998 and 2001 – 115,000 and 198,000 per year, respectively. 300,000 a year will be the END of the US economy.

          Make no mistake NASSCOM is behind this! They see the new mobile boom and want to cash in – and they want to destroy the US economy due to their historical hangups with Britain.

      • http://twitter.com/PaulHerzog3 Paul Herzog

        I don’t doubt that there is fraud in the program. People lie in their college applications-that doesn’t mean you outlaw Harvard.  One problem is that the Department of Labor doesn’t have the authority to initiate investigations on their own-they have to wait for complaints.  So if you have an issue with a particular employer abusing the program-don’t post here, call the Department of Labor.  Also ask Congress to give them more power to investigate.

        • SamHarnett

          Paul — my question is how could the government structure the H1B program so that there is less possibility for employer abuse? 

        • SamHarnett

          This is the reporter again.

          I think one of the most interesting “abuses” of the H1B program is with the green card application. It is not a violation of law for a company drag their feet on the process, and this gives employers leverage that they don’t have with American employees. How valuable is that leverage to companies? How long should an H1B wait for a green card? Should it be up to the employer to decide if they are going to move quickly or slowly? 

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roy-Lawson/670514336 Roy Lawson

            Great questions.  Not directed at me, but corporations should not be immigration middle men.  Often a point lost in the debate.  Immigration should be an agreement between immigrant and nation – no corporate broker needed.

            I can understand short term use for the B-1 visa when work isn’t being done, rather meetings and such to facilitate global trade.  But that isn’t a path to immigration.  The H-1b is under the doctrine of dual intent – meaning it is some highbrid that is suppose to be both temporary and a path to permanence.  And of course corporations have their hands all over it.

            Step one is to take them out of the equation. 

            They should be able to lure immigrants here (offer them jobs) but it should be up to the immigrant to apply for a visa and the immigrant should control the visa.  If corporations want to donate their attorneys towards that cause, that is fine.  But at the end of the day corporations shouldn’t be able to halt, revoke, or otherwise impact someone’s immigration process.

            What’s next?  Corporate sponsored passports?

          • http://twitter.com/factchecker2000 Fluffy Mergatryod

            How come during the PERM process, if a qualified American candidate shows up, they don’t hire the American and send the foreign worker home? I’ve never heard of that happening, only that they stop the PERM process and start over.Over on Immigration Voice dot org you can see lots of accounts of people being given advice on how to get around our laws and this issue comes up a lot. You can also see a lot of advice about overstaying visas and evading the consequences of positive TB tests.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jake-Leone/1380558892 Jake Leone

            I also agree that the Green Card process should be in the control of the employee.  The only working visas we should allow, should be Green Cards, with the intent to become citizen.  We cannot allow people to become dis-enfranchised in the United States. 

            H-1b is an aweful program, that has destroyed many jobs.  It creates an indentured class of people, and slavery/indentureship  is not a free market.  I support a return to the free market, where employers must compete for labor.  Our tech companies have become weak and dependent on a government program that enslaves workers.

            It’s time that our tech CEO’s learn about how to attract talent by competing for it, not by running to the government for a slave-labor hand out.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jake-Leone/1380558892 Jake Leone

          With 35,000 H-1b visas being used by offshore outsourcing companies, and that being more than half the base total of 65,000 h-1b visa, you have to be realizing that this program is destroying our economy’s ability to create jobs.  Companies that don’t even try to hire U.S. engineers.  Companies that specialize in the removal of jobs.

          There’s nothing small about 35,000 H-1b visas being used offshore millions of U.S. jobs.  One engineer can be liason for hundreds of offshore jobs.

          If more than half of Harvard degrees issued were fraudulent, you would have some government body or institution on Harvard. 

          That doesn’t happen in the government, corporate welfare, program known as H-1b.

          We have let the whining of a few tech executives destroy the ability of our economy to create jobs.  And created a Monster job destroying government program, in the H-1b system.  That is why it is called the “Off Shoring” visa in India.

          It was never intended that the H-1b program would be used to remove millions of jobs to overseas offices, yet that is exactly what is occuring.  And there is absolutely no enforcement, what-so-ever, of any requirement that H-1b dependent companies look for U.S. citizens.

          Clearly, with massive unemployment, offshore outsourcing companies are increasing their usage of the H-1b visa, at an exponential rate.

          For more than 200 years, the U.S. had an immigration system that meant you came in, you had full rights from day-one.  And you came here to stay. 

          H-1b has replaced that system, with a system of corporate indenturement that is perfect to facilitate the off shoring of millions of U.S. jobs, at all pay grades.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roy-Lawson/670514336 Roy Lawson

            42,501.  To be (more) precise… there are more uncounted but we’ll call that ballpark.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roy-Lawson/670514336 Roy Lawson

          Have you ever filed a complaint with the DOL?  I agree that they need more power to investigate, but why should corporations be immigration middle-men?  Their motives clearly have nothing to do with our long-term national intererests in regards to immigration.  They would prefer a nationalized temporary guest worker staffing pool, where they control the rights of immigrants to live here and to gain permanent residency.

          The H-1b is primarily about 1 thing: control. 

          It is a violation of very basic American values: freedom.  You create a second tiered class with limited mobility and rights. 

          I find your Harvard argument to be a red herring. 

          The DOL is a toothless paper tiger, but even if we gave them teeth the notion that corporations should be the arbitors of who gets to immigrate here is obscene.

          When we look at all those old pictures of immigrants arriving on Ellis Island, I seriously doubt that any of them had a corporation or business sponsor them.  Seriously – let’s start with the ground floor rationality behind corporations being the gate keepers.  There is none.  It’s a step towards fascism and a win for Crony Capitalism.

    • kmichael3

       Yes, you’re totally right. As a current H1-B at Harvard (previously on F1, and then J-1 research scholar), I used to be upset at all the vilification folks like Lou Dobbs, Matloff, CIS, NumbersUSA, FAIR, EPI et al. spewed at us. Now, I just smile and mentally brush the misrepresentations and outright lies these folks throw around off my shoulder.

      W.r.t. this article, as soon as I saw the strawman (or in this case, the straw-woman) stunt the writer pulled out of his behind in order to knock the H1B visa, I knew this wasn’t a serious article. Just parading as another in a long line of misrepresentations. The fact that H1Bs are not only required to have bachelor’s degree, but work in a capacity that requires at least a bachelor’s degree, that there are special restrictions on firms with more than 50% workers on H1B, that they are required to be paid similar wages as US workers, by law etc etc, will all be brushed off by the folks foaming at the mouth (I call them foamers…..apologies to birthers and truthers) who will prefer to have their perceptions reinforced by so-called “studies” from likes of the Matloff and EPI.

      • Marnie Dunsmore

        I’m not a “birther”.  I’ve been a liberal my entire life. I voted and campaigned for Obama.

        I don’t think you understand the demographic of people who are objecting to an increase in the H-1B visa cap or the Startup Visa.  We’re not students at Harvard, granted, but many of us used to be students at top universities.

        The fact is that the majority of H-1B visas are now going to workers with only bachelors degrees, many from dubious institutions.

        As to the special restrictions, the only special restrictions are that some companies are supposed to post the job.  Usually, if this is the case, they collect a few resumes of Americans who have applied, and then say they didn’t meet the requirement.  It’s been going on for years.

        As a student at Harvard, I’d guess that you don’t read DICE or know how things work in the current job market in the Bay Area or Seattle.  I guess you don’t know about the dramatic increase in the use of foodstamps by unemployed PhD grads.  Or, perhaps you just don’t care.

        Norm Matloff’s research is hardly a surprise to an engineer or computer scientist working in Silicon Valley or Washington State. However, as a researcher at Harvard with no work experience, I might be able to understand that you are unaware of the problem.

        • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

          Americans invented IT long before Indians or Chinese ever saw a keyboard.

          • andygoswildy

            “Rage Against Fraudy” has no knowledge of Maths or any techy stuff –
            neither he knows where it came from…..when you were wandering in your
            panties in those days…people in india invented zero – which make it
            possible to bitch around on the internet just like what you are doing
            now….in china they invented paper…which you guys use to clean your
            ass holes…..so fucking stop talking about THOSE OLD DAYS…because
            China – India had a longgggg history of culture, technology, inventions
            etc. You guys are just discovering/inventing….
            BTW – world is build on exchange of ideas not just to take fucking
            credit about the things (especially when shit-holes like you never
            involved in development of any f those ideas)

          • http://twitter.com/factchecker2000 Fluffy Mergatryod

            The Mayans had zero without any help from India. Speaking of a-holes, how come India still has over 60% open defecation? Too bad they can’t seem to invent the outhouse. The west never had this problem. Even in the Bible it says to go outside the camp and cover it up with dirt.

          • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

            Indians didn’t arrive in large numbers to USA until 1998. How did we poor Americans get along without them for the first 506 years?

          • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

            No one invented zero. Zero is lack of something. No one invented it. And mathematically it arose in Persia, not India.

            Another childish Indian unable to reason or learn history.

            India cannot even produce its own operating system.

            Internet, PCs, software, transistors, ICs, radio, TV, air travel, moon landings, space shuttle. All invented by white Americans. Only thing India has ever invented in 5000 years is chess.

            Beg 300,000 more jobs off Americans? Why don’t you create your own Apple?

            Oh wait, you can’t.

            China and India have never invented anything. Everything you have you stole from us. Please name the “technologies” India and China invented.

            World is not built on exchange of ideas – world is built on hard work – something Indians have a strong aversion to. Easier for you just to rob others.

      • John80224

        As a current H-1b at Harvard, I assume we can surmise that you are not a current H-1b at InfoSys, Tata, WiPro, Cognizant, etc.  While there are other areas of concern, THOSE are the most egregious examples of the abused aspects of such visas.  Do you honestly believe that they onshore staff simply to be loss-leaders for their offshore?  Rates charged for their onshore staff generally fail to meet the cost of an experienced developer.

        As to the “studies”, what invalidates them?  And could you provide better examples?

        • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

          Infosys senior level meetings : “We will dump 6 million Indians in US and capture their entire IT market and no American will ever come to know about this. We will throw these Americans out of their own country. They don’t know what we are doing over here.”

        • SamHarnett

          This is the reporter, Sam. I think John brings up a good point.

          The H1B fulfils a variety of roles, which is partly why it is so contentious. Bajraktari, Bajaj, a Harvard researcher, and a worker at Infosys are all very different, yet they are all on the same visa.

          How could the immigration system be reformed to better handle all of these situations?

          • John80224

            Sadly, a huge factor is even ignoring the speed of change, government can’t seem to manage “skilled” and “other”.  Specialization (H-1b.IT, H-1b.Med,…) sounds like a recipe for bureaucratic hell where the big winners are immigration attorneys.  There’s no perfect measure, but focusing on salary and a few basic demographics may go a long way.  Most of the challenges to the existing system are based on our concepts of age and ethnic origin being tossed out the window with a resulting lower salary.  It’s odd that companies aren’t supposed to discriminate on such factors, yet barring a lawsuit, have few cases where they are required to prove anything.  Especially if your need is so desperate you can’t hire domestically, opening the hood is almost free–unless you’re doing something you shouldn’t be.

            A more complicated but sometimes scarily accurate prospect might even be to back the system with a predictive modeling tool.  Two dozen pieces of information can wind up telling a LOT about the hiring practices of a company.

          • Marnie Dunsmore

            Sam,

            How could the H-1B system be reformed?

            I am not sure, but for starters, I think we should completely back off the idea of increasing the H-1B visa cap and the Startup Visa idea.

            In spite of the stock market being at an all time high, the unemployment rate is still at about 8%.  It is not going down.

            For experienced, highly skilled H1-B visa workers who are here, something needs to be done to work through the backlog. 

            Frankly, I think there should be a point system, administered by a qualified government agency, to evaluate credentials and skills and weigh that against current and future economic need.  It would not be that hard to do. There plenty of international rating agencies for international universities.  The government does keep statistics for employment rates in US subspecialties.  Granted, it could beef this up, but it wouldn’t be that difficult to do.

            I know that this will hurt highly skilled H-1B people without a degree.  Probably, for those very small number of people who are self taught, three letters of recommendation from past employers, CV, etc, could be used in lieu of a degree. 

            The idea of granting a green card based on salary has a lot of problems.  ie. there are regional differences in salary, women are still paid less (yes, even in fields such as engineering women are paid less for equivalent skill sets, years of experience, etc.)

            However, other than clearing the backlog, there is *not* huge demand in most STEM job areas, so, for instance, I am rather ambivalent about what should be done for foreign students with PhDs.  As I’ve mentioned several times, less than half of PhDs are getting any kind of employment.  Many PhDs are now on their third postdoc.  Those are the lucky ones.

            All I can say is that the failure to match skill needs to the economy is really creating a lot of economic misery and waste.

            I do like the idea of tracking employers using a predictive modeling tools to see how their salaries stack up against other companies, where they are hiring their foreign employees from, what is the demographic mix of their workforce, etc. This could and should be used to determine if the employer is abusing the system.

            Regardless, I think it would constitute the utmost folly to increase the H-1B visa cap or implement the Startup Visa.

            We need to work through the back log with what we’ve got.

            I know that the idea of a government agency will be rejected by companies, but it is high time that this is done. The US immigration system used to work more like this twenty or third years ago, so it is not a completely scandalous idea.

            Also (*hint* to VCs and corporate executives), a little reinvestment in R&D and US manufacturing wouldn’t hurt.

      • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

        We all know exactly what you are doing here spy. Infiltrate, takeover, loot, remit, steal, propagandize, rob, lie.

        Your game is up and Americans are waking up.

        http://indiots.zymichost.com/

        And everyone knows Asians cheat their way through school.

        May 22, 2007

        “Most Students in Duke U. Cheating Scandal Are Asian, Lawyer Says

        Most of the Duke University business students swept up in a cheating scandal last month are from Asia, their lawyer told The News & Observer, a newspaper in Raleigh, N.C. In the scandal, 34 M.B.A. students were found to have shared answers on an open-book take-home examination in a required course. Nine have been expelled, 15 suspended, and 10 flunked.”

        You can also but a PhD in Punjab for $300.

        Biggest recession and 28 million jobs destroyed is not a strawman, it’s a fact. And Indians caused it.

        Your days of raping USA are over.

        I have been in software 20 years including at Apple, Sony, and Hitachi. Every company I walk into these days is 98% Indian IT workers. 50% only? Stop lying.

        You’ve failed to keep the US economy going as promised. Time for you to go.

        • andygoswildy

           So which country are you from Originally? Or are you spying?

          • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

            I was born here. And my ancestors came here and wanted to be American. They didn’t come here out of jealousy and hate with the intent to rob and destroy like today’s immigrants like this guy:

            From: Rajesh Kumar Ramachandran
            Subject: Listen to me A******!!
            Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 20:49:20 -0700 (PDT)

            Now listen carefully to me a******.. dont
            just bark around in the corner like a rabies stricken stray dog about
            your pathetic views about politics and jobs. If your insecure about your
            skills and abilities thats your f****** problem not Indians or any
            other politicians.. Well you want me to provoke you well then hear this,
            we are gonna take all your jobs away.. we gonna make sure that you dont
            even have money to buy s*** and eat, we gonna take evrything thatwas
            yours. we gonna drape the Statue of Liberty with a saree (you
            dont know wahta saree iis, well its a dress which Indian women wear)..
            now get your f****** stinking face out of here A******!!!!!

          • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

            My ancestors never did this:

            http://indiots.zymichost.com/images/take.JPG

      • The_Madness_Must_Stop

         degrees from fake indian universities, low-quality universities,  coupled with fraudulent resumes.  Sorry that the truth hurts about H1b’s, time for you to face up and look at the job-robber in the mirror…

        • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

          Google “PhD for sale in Punjab for $300″. All fakers are frauds.

      • SamHarnett

        kmichael,

        In your opinion is the H1B visa program flawless? Are the complaints from employees on an H1B without merit?

        • kmichael3

           The H1B visa program isn’t flawless – not by a long shot. I’d probably go with the GAO report a few years ago that found about 1 in 5 had some technical problems, misrepresentations and fraud. But that leaves about 4 in 5 legitimate cases. Instead of fixing the issues, should the baby be thrown out with the water?

          IMO, the biggest drawback with the H1B visa is its every size fits all approach – foreign students, skilled workers from outside who may want to settle permanently, those on a short stay for training purposes, artists, models etc all have to use the H1B. Obviously, there will be problems with the varied interests pushing to advance their specific causes. A second problem with the visa is the provision that once a person changes jobs, they will have to start their permanent residency application all over leading to folks being tied to their employers, no matter what. Ironically, unions and their beholden senators/congressmen pushed this provision, ostensibly to protect Americans from us “furriners” . This way, we couldn’t actively switch jobs, limiting the potential competition. I find it unconscionable that these same folks are suddenly crying “indentured servitude” and are all concerned for my well-being, *shakes head*.

          What I don’t buy is the charge that H1Bs are paid lower than their native American contemporaries. There have been literally tens of thousands of audits and less than 1% have found anything to support that claim. Of course, this will never satisfy the conspiracy theorists and their so-called studies, championed by Matloff, CIS etc. That somehow, all these multinational companies are systematically breaking the law and paying H1Bs less. The original report on this thread is a case in point. Everyone who has been through the H1B process knows that the lady will not qualify for the H1B. So this is a total non-story. Whats the point then in writing this except to push an agenda and get otherwise well adjusted (temperamentally) people all riled up?

           An alternate study:
          http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1981215#

          Finally, to the foamer who is yelling and spitting at Asians, I’m not even an Asian, have no Asian/Indian relatives and have never been on the Asian continent. Your conduct says a lot about the people who are rabidly opposed to the H1B, doesn’t it?

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roy-Lawson/670514336 Roy Lawson

            “What I don’t buy is the charge that H1Bs are paid lower than their native American contemporaries. There have been literally tens of thousands of audits and less than 1% have found anything to support that claim. ”

            Wait a second.  If you are going to simply disparage Matloff for his studies what about Ron Hira?  Read his studies instead of mischaracterizing him.  They aren’t written on napkins.

            The studies you cite are written by whom?  You don’t think the PPI has a bias?

            Doesn’t it seem obvious that if 42,501 of the H-1b visas in 2012 went to 12 offshore outsourcing firms – primarily based in India – that the rates will be low?  There is ample evidence that H-1b visa holders are short changed.  Just read the foreign worker quoted in this very article!!!

            I’m married to a foreigner.  My step mother is from another country.  I don’t have an anti-foreign bone in my body.  But if we are dealing with facts here there is no doubt based on my own research and the scrutiny of others that most H-1b workers are underpaid. 

            As to the PPI research I have doubts as to 1) how they could have accessed the data needed to arrive at their conclusions and 2) how reliable the data they did use is.  It is also a contradiction to LCA data (which we know is unreliable – but still a good bell-weather data source).

            I don’t think the PPI paper is completely flawed but there are clearly cases where the visa is being used with wage being the motivating driver.  I think they simple failed to consider all the data available and stood their argument on some questionable data.

            I would say that in IT services the vast majority of H-1b workers are paid well below American counterparts.  I don’t know if doctors or some other profession are bumping the numbers up in the PPI study but half the visas to into computer fields and lower cost is the primary motivator.

          • kmichael3

             Exhibit A: Doesn’t conform to what I wanna hear so it must be flawed. Let’s give it up for “unskewed polls”!!!

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roy-Lawson/670514336 Roy Lawson

            That’s exactly what you’ve done with Matloff. 

            I read the research (much research in fact over the years).  I found flaws with the PPI specific to there way of determining salary.

            It’s not just Matloff’s research that contradicts this.  The only support I can think of would come from NFAP – which is an industry front group pretending to be a think tank.  They won’t tell you where their funding comes from (PPI does do that – so I don’t categorize them as a front group).

            I’ve done this same type of research and understand how difficult it is because of lack of data.  They drew conclusions that cannot be verified independently because they data isn’t available.

            Anyways, I don’t dispute all of their findings.  I have concerns about their methodology.

          • Marnie Dunsmore

            I came here from Canada on an H-1B in the 90s.  Not only was I paid significantly less compared to equivalently experienced co-workers, I was also given less interesting work assignments.

            I’d worked in Canada in the same field and for a competitor to the company I came to work for in the US.  I also believe that the company I came to work for in the US was not upfront with me regarding the H-1B process.  I would have been much better off staying in Canada.  This is another aspect of the H-1B that I do not like:  the legal details and indentured nature of the visa are not given to prospective workers during the hiring process.

            While on an H-1B, I worked for two startups and one large company.  The situation at the large company was better (in terms of salary), but still not comparable to those not on H-1Bs.

            The vaste majority of H-1B holders are not from Harvard. 

            H-1Bs are also mostly used by companies in the electronics, IT, and software sectors.  Are you in those sectors or something else?

            If it is something else, then perhaps your experience with the H-1B and your thinking that pay is not depressed for H-1Bs, does not reflect what most H-1B holders experience.

            Also, I’d be curious as to what you have to say to those in the 35 year old + category who now cannot get hired by Google, Microsoft, Facebook, HP, Intel and the like.  The H-1B displaces Americans in the 35+ year old category by giving these companies a surplus of young workers.  Many of the displaced are former H-1B holders. 

            Any thoughts?

          • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

            You helped wreck the US economy, now go home.

        • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

          H-1Bs are not even supposed to be here. They were supposed to go home in 2002.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roy-Lawson/670514336 Roy Lawson

        Why are you lumping Matloff in there?  Have you read what he says or is asking for?  You know he is asking for full mobility.  Also, why would you ignore Ron Hira who is also a strong voice on the matter?

        Matloff is a professor.  He avoids politics.  He approached this more from an academic perspective and I suppose if you take him out of context (or anyone for that matter) you could suggest they have some alterior motives or are anti-immigrant.  People have tried that to me.  Not easy to prove a negative.

        The reason I’m defending Matloff is because I’ve found his views to be sage and based on facts as he understands them.  If there are specific findings of his you dispute I’d like to know about them – but you aren’t attacking his study rather his character. 

        I’m biased in favor of Matloff because he is level headed.  I’ve never had a conversation with him about some of the people truly foaming at the mouth – but I suspect he would tell them to STFU in a more academic way if he were so inclined. 

        Every now and then I confront them (read the thread below where I chastise rage against fraudy character) but usually confronting them only makes it worse so I’ll fire a little warning shot and leave it at that.

        To be clear we don’t like the people frothing at the mouth.  How could we like the people who are the most adept at marginalizing us?  Who needs corporate lobbyists and front groups like NFAP when we have IT Grunt and Fraudy.  With “friends” like that who needs enemies?

        • betacentaur

          I suspect your previous comment about Fraudy was dead-on. Btw have you ever analysed Matloffs study from the point of correlation and dependance ?

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roy-Lawson/670514336 Roy Lawson

            No.  I’m probably not qualitified to do that to be totally honest.  I’ve written a thesis and conducted non-peer reviewed research on this subject.  But I wouldn’t call myself “a researcher” because that’s not what I do for a living.  It may not be a bad idea to gather all the studies and get an independent (neutral) source to evaluate them. 

            Many so-called studies come from front groups who have an agenda.  Wadhwa is more of an adjunct professor (no doctorate) who was politically astute enough to gain honorary titles and sell himself as a world-class researcher.  He’s no more or less qualified than I am to conduct research.  He also has hired many H-1b workers himself and is really an entrepreneur who has been rewarded financially by using the system we have today.

            NFAP is another group to be dubious of that has released their own studies.  They are truly a front group, and the roots are from the same group of “researchers” who at one time tried to convince Americans that smoking was healthy.  Front groups are a big problem and very few people understand the scope of this problem and just how successful they are and misleading people for profit.  The director of NFAP has raised 7 figures but we have no idea where the money is coming from.  They aren’t telling.  Another scandal is that we allow them to be tax exempt when it’s clear they are a politically motivated and profit motivated organization, not a real think tank. 

            Matloff doesn’t appear to have a dog in the fight – if he does it’s a poodle.  He will do just fine as a professor no matter who wins or loses.  Ron Hira made some money on the book… but he too doesn’t seem to have much to gain.  In fact, I suspect he is treated poorly by some Indians who see him as a traitor and may have something to lose.

            I’m not sure where to find a neutral party and what it would cost (and who should pay for it.. because if I paid for it would they really be neutral?).  This is what our government should be doing.  Too bad they aren’t neutral either.  The problem with crony capitalism is that there is nowhere to turn.  Unless you’re a crony.

            So for now, read the studies.  Look at their citations.  Use what you know about critical thinking.  Think about not only their findings, but the source of their findings.  Ask yourself “what’s in it for them?”.  Are they financially motivated?  Politically motivated?

            You know my bias.  I could probably increase my income by about $15,000 a year if this program weren’t being exploited based on what I believe the impact is to the market.  In the scheme of things that is small change. 

            NFAP has raised millions.  I’m pretty sure I could turn coat now, the industry would love me, and I could profit at the expense of everyone else.  So there is a much bigger upside if I were simply to abandon my principals and become a crony myself.  Financially, at least.  I guess there are things I value more than the money which is why I don’t (and won’t) do that.

            Wadhwa was in my situation because 5 years ago I thought he was someone who did provide insight into the program – he was actually thoughtful and retrospective on his own use.  I truly believe he became a crony and couldn’t resist the attention once the “precious” lights started shining.  His inner Gollum came out.

          • betacentaur

            I agree to the idea about Hira. Personally – Wadhwa appeared to be ok before he started canvassing for the unlimited H1-b I-squared greed which I think is a lose-lose for anyone apart from corporations – In the long run. Matlof – I am not sure. He sure seems to enjoy his current line of thought. But it’ll show up – pretty soon.

          • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

            Wadhwa failed twice at startups – once getting fired as CEO at a tech startup. Then he went into academia and published the infamous “52% of silicon valley startups are created by foreigners” PHONE SURVEY and passed it off as a real study. The man is a complete fraud.

        • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

          Emotion seems to be the only thing Americans understand since reason and facts don’t get through to them.

      • The_Madness_Must_Stop

        c’mon, you mean those b/s degrees from IIT, where you can buy any type of degree you want, or maybe you mean the vast volume of fake “CV’s” that every H1b keeps in his back pocket. H1b is full of fraud and corruption ( Google Infosys and H1b fraud ), and it’s high time that people have finally woken up to this fact. And at the end of the day – THIS COUNTRY DOESN’T BELONG TO H1B’S – THEY ARE TEMPORARY GUEST WORKERS, NOT CITIZENS. Time to go home H1b…

    • http://twitter.com/factchecker2000 Fluffy Mergatryod

      No, their paperwork must merely “attest” (claim, lie) that they tried to find an American. And it is perfectly legal to refuse to interview or hire Americans who may find out about the job and apply. It is also perfectly legal to dismiss an American and put an H-1B in his place – this has happened to hundreds of thousands of American tech workers (that we know of). And if they can pay the H-1B 10K or more less per year, those fees you mention are nothing.

      • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

        There is no enforcement. And the dean of Harvard Business School is now an Indian. Of course they are going to argue to flood the US with more of their own, or send jobs to India. Infiltrate, take over, loot, propagandize, reverse-colonize.

        • andygoswildy

          Looks like “Rage Against Fraudy” is,
          - Racist
          - Jealous

          Why does it matter what race is dean? Just explain me the logic….

          Burnt…..Do you want some aloe vera gel

          Are you American or are you fucking jealous white skin cracker?

          • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

            “Why does it matter what race is dean? Just explain me the logic….”

            The logic is: FOREIGN SPIES.

            Did you know Japan has laws limiting media access to 5% foreign nationals? Any sane country does this. Only insane America lets in foreign manipulators to sabotage and brainwash our kids.

            “Your children are ours” as Hitler said.

            You’re not in favor of Hitler are you?

          • andygoswildy

            None of my conversation, by any sane person, will be intepreted as I like hitler…! However, I do want to stress that,
            1. VISA is definitely abused….
            2. There many cases which are against Indians (that doesn’t make you to have a right to curse Indians..neither it makes you to have a right to belittle the entire race)
            3. Put more thoughts in solving the problems
            4. Do not take credits for what YOU have not doen…and do not blame for what others have not doen….nor so not exclude the people which you don’t knwo what they have given to this country…basically stop beaing ignorant dumb ass if you really want to solve the problems – focus on it….do not jubber-jabber

          • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

             ”white skin cracker” is racist.

        • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

          There are LAWS on the books in India making it illegal to hire white
          people there. When those laws are removed, or when China creates a
          program for 4 million Americans to go take IT jobs in China, get back to
          me. Until then, what goes around comes around. These people come into
          our country and act racist against us, they get it thrown right back in
          their faces. The whole world is racist.

          If you want to see some real racism check out:

          indiots zymichost com

          India is the most racist country in the world

    • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

      In theory, yes. In reality it is a free-for-all with zero enforcement. Our loser pols are taking all kinds of $ from foreign powers to allow this to happen.

    • twinsfan1100

      Paul, I recommend that you learn more about a topic before posting such an uninformed opinion.  A few years ago, Zoe Lofgren was telling everybody that the average wage in Silicon Valley was $95,000 while H-1B body shops were using $59,000 as the prevailing wage.

      In 2011, the GAO concluded that a mere 6% of H-1B visa recipients were “Fully Competent” with 54% of H-1B visa recipients being “Entry Level” workers.

    • The_Madness_Must_Stop

       you mean all the fraud that is committed with H1b’s, B1′s and L1 visas, and how indian outsourcing companies are using these visas not to do anything other than move more and more jobs offshore, is that the part you are referring to that is being left out ?

      • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

        Infosys senior level meetings : “We will dump 6 million Indians in US and capture their entire IT market and no American will ever come to know about this. We will throw these Americans out of their own country. They don’t know what we are doing over here.”

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roy-Lawson/670514336 Roy Lawson

    Keep on digging.  You are unconvering layers of the story most reporters only scratch the surface of, but you also left quite a bit out. 

    On the 9 week program – total abuse of the system.  It should be about skills, not money.  And totally correct calling it “indentured servitude”. 

    We’ve got to fix this on two fronts.  First, it shouldn’t be a source of cheap labor nor harm the American labor market.  Second, those we do welcome into our country should have equal rights on the labor market and not punished in their immigration status for seeking new work or starting a business.

    42,501 H-1 visas went to just twelve offshore outsourcing firms based in India.  The primary cap is 65k, so that’s a large chunk supporting offshore outsourcing.  Why are politicians asking to expand the program but doing nothing to stop that type of use of it, or the harm caused towards American workers?

    • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

      These people are only supposed to come here if they ALREADY have the skills, not once they land here.

      Also, under Title 8, Section 1182 INADMISSIBLE ALIENS *all* foreign workers are illegal if Americans are unemployed. These people are not even supposed to BE in the country at all while we have 40 million Americans out work.

      They obviously are not helping the economy since it’s a total disaster. When Americans ran the economy it was BOOMING.

      Time to stop the delusional subsidizing of non-performing foreign guest workers. These people are not performing. They are here to ride the startup hype and siphon our wealth in the form of remittances, which is why we had a banking crisis. These people have not performed and they are keeping Americans out of the workforce. Time to deport them ALL and put Americans back to work.

      Under US immigration law, US jobs are the sole property of US citizens. Period.

    • SamHarnett

      Good points Roy. 

      I want to add that Senators Grassley and Durbin have attempted to pass H1B reform in the past:

      http://www.grassley.senate.gov/issues/Immigration.cfm

      Also, that nine week program isn’t just a rubber-stamp coding school. It is as hard to get in as selective US colleges.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roy-Lawson/670514336 Roy Lawson

        Even if the school were almost impossible to get into, as someone highly experienced in software development I can tell you that 9 weeks simply isn’t enough if you are starting with nothing.  It takes a year of on the job experience to be barely acceptable (and colleagues willing to work with you and look over amateur mistakes… and help you fix them).  Sorry but we don’t need people with no prior background in software coming out of 9 week schools and being minted as “software professionals”.  This isn’t truck driving.  If we had decent mentorship and “journeyman” type programs in our field maybe that would work – but we don’t. 

        Anyone going to that school with no background in software – with immigration being their primary motive – is wasting their money.  It’s a shame our immigration program would cause someone to consider such a foolish idea.

        If you already have a background in IT or development (preferably a related degree and experience) and you need to improve your skills to get back in the workforce with current knowledge than this could be a smart idea.  But an English major with no prior experience?  Stupid stupid stupid. 

        Maybe she’ll luck out and get a job in India where they are seeking entry level people with very little skills but I wouldn’t bet on her finding work here as a developer with just that in her corner.  Heck, I have doubts of her making the cut in India – at least as a developer.  She could be a PM or something but I don’t see her cranking out code. 

        She has a degree from Stanford.  I can’t believe it has come down to a 9 week coder training program.  Lady – I mean this with all due respect: bad career choice!  And terrible marketing of Stanford.  They can’t get their graduates jobs???  I thought that was an “elite” school.I have doubts as to how tough it is to get into that coder school.  My bet is that if you have a credit card and it won’t get declined when they swipe it, you’re in.  I can test that theory.  Anyone have a credit card to lend me?  I’d like to get my 10 year old enrolled this summer.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jake-Leone/1380558892 Jake Leone

        She has a degree in biology, not computer science.  If she gets in on an H-1b visa, she will likely take a starting job away from a U.S. citizen, plain as that. 

        Examples of such starting jobs are Software Tester, Unit Script tester.. I started out in these kinds of jobs, today I am a well paid developer.  

        But I got that start back before the H-1b program.  Lucky me. 

        And lucky for the U.S. as I have paid a lot of taxes and not had to utilize my country’s safety net (unemployment, welfare…).

        There is a word for people who have misplaced their sympathies, and it isn’t pretty.

        This lady already has an excellent degree, and she should be back in her home using it to benefit her people, and not coming here to basically steal a starting job from a U.S. citizen.

        Which is clearly a waste of potential.

        To basically use an H-1b visa, for no other purpose than to displace a U.S. citizen, violates the intent for which the visa was created.

        We should not be enabling her abuse.  And I think that you have some soul searching to do on this one.

  • truth_beacon

    Why are some folks scared of competition? Clearly, the average H1B worker is getting a wage significantly above the US average. So, the allegation of “child labor” type exploitation sounds pretty hollow. Also, she is a net asset to the US economy in terms of tax revenue (vs. services provided). So clearly she is providing a value-addition at a competitive price that firms find attractive compared to an average US worker with similar qualifications. So what is the fuss all about?

    • http://twitter.com/factchecker2000 Fluffy Mergatryod

      The fuss is about cheap scab labor destroying American families and communities. It’s not just one American losing a job. It’s an American who can no longer pay his mortgage, no longer pay the taxes that keep America going, and his family who may lose their home. What happens to your kids when that happens, or your pets? The foreigners don’t care. To them, America is just one gigantic cookie jar and they will stop at nothing to get both hands in deep. They don’t care what happens to the Americans they displace. It’s high time us Americans started caring again. To make room for a 9 week coder, some company will lay off a 9 year coder. The H-1B was not supposed to cause that, but it does.

      • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

        Asian business model:

        - Invade your competitor’s country.

        - Get into his country and throw all his native workers out of jobs.

        - Steal all his trade secrets and take them back to your own country.

        - Destroy his companies so he cannot compete.

        - Make sure his own workers do not work and earn $.

        - Siphon and export as much of his capital as possible via remittances.

        - Collapse all his companies to increase unemployment and social unrest.

        - Collapse his tax base so he has to borrow $ from you.

        - When at last he is destroyed, claim he can’t “compete” and that your nation is “better” than his.

        • truth_beacon

          I hope you guys do realize that this 19th century jingoism is pretty outdated, and any credibility it had has been completely eroded by the 2012 election results. 

          Any conspiracy theory assertions about this “Asian Invasion” on American business can just as easily be applied to American exports sent  all over the world. How is that not an invasion on the livelihood of manufacturing workers in those countries? 

          Every economy has to learn to compete on its own terms. The simple fact is that American firms are interested in hiring some kinds of skills, and there is a set of people who possess these skills and are providing them at a competitive price – a price which is multiple times above minimum wages by the way. 

          Trying to stop this process is just as pointless as the French trying to limit Hollywood movies a few years back because their French film industry just couldn’t make movies which the French people wanted to watch. 

          Good luck with that. 

          • http://twitter.com/factchecker2000 Fluffy Mergatryod

            More and more economists are coming to the realization that a big factor causing America’s employment problem and sluggish economic recovery over the last decade is globalism. The only thing that will save America is to get Americans back to work. Not to replace them with cheaper foreigners and leave them to die, as has been happening over the last decade. Sorry, the third world will have to fix its own problems (for a change).

        • andygoswildy

            Looks like “Rage Against Fraudy” is,
          - Racist
          - Jealous
          - Carry incomplete knowledge
          - Is not solving a real problem but just playing a blame game
          - is a IT job holder and knows only that (limited point of view)
          - Forgotten that he himself is immigrant (may be not of this generation)
          - Creates his own emails at home and posts here with the foreign names in the email
          - Uses very abusive and provocative language (if he can not talk properly how can he have a good point)
          - May be already fired or on the stage of getting fired due to lack of performance

          • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

            There are LAWS on the books in India making it illegal to hire white people there. When those laws are removed, get back to me on the racism thing. And no I’m not jealous – just demanding back what Americans created but stolen by other countries. I’ve worked in software 20 years including at Apple and Sony so I think my knowledge is more complete than yours. My degree is in Business and I’ve worked on Wall St. too, not just IT. I am an immigrant of European culture, which built America, not Asian culture, which is mostly criminal. The email I posted was sent to me by a friend who used to work at Sun – before he got thrown out by jealous Asians. As for “abuse” if Azim Premji can go on US TV and say “America does not have the talent” while every company Indians touch dies, then I can be abusive too. I’ve written 20 commercial software products including at Apple and Sony just to name a few so I think my performance is better than any invader’s who collapse all our companies.

          • andygoswildy

             Burnt for sure…
            I think you have to show off to prove how good you are..
            Do you know who invented wireless? Do you know who is co-founder of Sun-microsystem…do you know where the Pentium 4 designed? Dp you know who discovered water on moon first? Do you know how many people in Silicon valley are non-european creating tons and tons jobs?
            Software is not THE things dude…Apple and Sony is not THE things dude…there are other companies…BTW anybody with average logical brain and good programming practice can write a code…so don’t be so arrogant…there is always better person than yourself – do not forget…AGAIN – World is made up of different people….America is called as democratic…but only true democratic country in the world is India….who REALLY accepts everybody….Europeans are Robbers in suite….Why not to make Europe a great place…why the F do you have to come to America? Why the Red indians are called Indians? – do you know – they were searching for India even before they were searching for America? Do you know why? You Dumb ass…couple companies and writing code code doesn’t make you smart….even undergrad people can do that…what are you…Mr. Ignorant – Did you fell in Hisotry or did you study history in America…ha ha ha…use google…

      • andygoswildy

         Oh really…then why don’t they find the other fresh grad from american univ who are american citizen to replace the 9 yr coder who is american? Those kids will be definitely cheaper than 9yr old guy..

        What are you talking you Fluffy brain?

        • http://twitter.com/factchecker2000 Fluffy Mergatryod

          America was booming before you guys flooded our labor market. Your sense of entitlement to a job here is sick.

          • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

             A+++++

          • andygoswildy

             What is America made of of? which people? Who owns these companies who hires people like us and you? Aren’t those american you dumbo…why would you blame for that to non-americans…this proves how people like you and yourself are unable to understand the real argument…you dumbos burger eaters…

    • John80224

      How would you feel about having 25% of your income taken away for the good of the whole?  If you honestly feel that you’d be perfectly fine with it, then I will not be able to answer your last question question.

      As to competition, it’s not about straight up competition.  It’s about competing in a regional or local economy with the balance of that economy specifically being tipped to a lower, global scale.  It’s about competing on grounds that the American concepts of good and fair are expected to be thrown out the window.  While not the majority of cases, a lot of us have been tossed out the door–in part facilitated by the abusive uses of this visa–for having been experienced and native-born.

    • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

      America accepts more immigrants than any other country. 4 million Indian IT workers can come here to compete but 4 million American IT workers can’t go to India or China to take jobs. I’d say it’s Asians who are afraid of competition. Most of them come here and deliberately deny jobs to Americans since they can’t compete with us. If we were “afraid” of competition we never would have let these people in to begin with. When foreign workers now in management positions start hiring Americans and let us compete side by side with them, then get back to us about being “afraid of competition”.

      And terrorizing your native workforce is not a way to get high productivity out of people.

      As for adding value, I don’t think you can call the biggest recession in 70 years and 28 million jobs lost “adding value”.

      The fuss is about importing millions of workers who in 1998 promised to keep a US economy going and have, in fact, done the opposite.

      They are here to take and destroy, not to help us.

      Asians cannot compete against Americans so they have to come here and exclude us and destroy what we do have so their own companies at home can thrive.

      • andygoswildy

         Well I think there is one more component called “Lifestyle”…which is better here than India or china. That is another MAJOR reason why they would prefer to opt the jobs here than their own country.

        “Rage AGainst Fraudy” Stop mixing so many things and creating enchilads out of it. Please do homework – just don’t spit out everything you say…make some sense if you can.

        STOP being racist…

        • http://twitter.com/factchecker2000 Fluffy Mergatryod

          The foreign workers owe a debt of patriotism to their homelands. If they came here on student visas, they have a duty to go home and build up their own nations, not stay here and live large. America doesn’t have enough jobs to satisfy the third world. They need to make their own countries worth living in, not escape to here.

          • andygoswildy

             You work hard …. you will get what you want…why to jealous…American companies will hire whoever they think they should…why YOUR ass is on fire

          • The_Madness_Must_Stop

            American companies will hire any serf that they think will allow them to get around wage laws and norms. Besides, the biggest users of H1b are the crappy indian IT companies, such as Tata, InfoSh*t, Wipe-Pro, and others like CrapGemin. You honestly think those companies are looking to get good people – they are looking to get low/no-skilled slaves that they markup and treat like shit…and H1b perfectly fits the bill…wake up and smell the job robbing…

        • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

          There are LAWS on the books in India making it illegal to hire white people there. When those laws are removed, or when China creates a program for 4 million Americans to go take IT jobs in China, get back to me. Until then, what goes around comes around. These people come into our country and act racist against us, they get it thrown right back in their faces. The whole world is racist.

        • The_Madness_Must_Stop

          who gives a sh*t if America is better, what kind of reasoning is that? All I hear from pro-H1b posts is how fantastic india is, it really must be, because everyone there wants to get here just as fast as they can. Go home H1b’s, fix things there, the U.S. is not your cookie jar, the job-robbing party is over…

    • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

      WASHINGTON |
      Wed Oct 3, 2012 4:43pm EDT 
      (Reuters) – Chinese theft of valuable U.S. trade secrets, often obtained
      by sophisticated cyber-attacks, is becoming a more serious problem,
      U.S. industry officials said on Wednesday.

      “This matter requires more attention,” Jeremie Waterman, head of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce’s China division, told a U.S. government panel hosted by the U.S. Trade Representative’s office.It
      “has risen substantially in importance over the last year, year and a
      half,” Waterman said at an annual hearing on China’s compliance with
      World Trade Organization rules.In
      one recent case, two Chinese citizens in Kansas City, Missouri, were
      charged with attempting to pay $100,000 for stolen trade secrets from
      Pittsburgh Corning Corp, an affiliate of PPG Industries Inc (PPG.N) and Corning Inc (GLW.N),
      at its Sedalia, Mo. facility. The Justice Department said the pair were
      trying to purchase the trade secrets so a rival plant could be opened
      in China.

    • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

      Infosys senior level meetings : “We will dump 6 million Indians in US and capture their entire IT market and no American will ever come to know about this. We will throw these Americans out of their own country. They don’t know what we are doing over here.”

    • The_Madness_Must_Stop

       Americans aren’t scared of competition – the companies that hire the low/no-skilled Hb1′s are afraid of competing with American STEM workers on salary. And if indians aren’t afraid of competition, then stay home and create your own tech paradise and compete with us from your own country. H1b’s come here and take advantage of and infrastructure that was paid for with American citizen tax-payer dollars for decades – not one or two years. No one here is paying taxes to see American put out of work by indians, let india fix it’s own unemployment problems, and NOT with my tax dollars

    • Dave Chapman

      Are you psycho?  H1-B wages are a matter of public record.  They get paid around 66% of what a US citizen makes.

      To the degree that this is a “net asset” to the US economy, H1-Bs represent a transfer of money from the college-educated part of the work force to the corporate sector.  If you think that this is a good thing, then that’s what you think.

      However. . . . don’t piss on my shoes and tell me that it’s raining.

      Oh, yeah, I’d like to clarify something.  In my experience, H1-Bs from Western Europe (with white skin) get paid exactly the same as US citizens.  H1-Bs from China, Japan, and Korea (with yellow skin) get paid 66%, and H1-Bs from India (with brown skin) get paid between 40% and 50% of what an American gets.  The corporations are engaged in a racist behavior here, not the critics.

      • kmichael3

         Can you send me a link to your public record? Oh and whilst  you’re at it, can you send me the link to Obama’s Kenyan birth certificate?

      • andygoswildy

          Looks like “Dave Chapman” is,
        - Racist
        - Jealous
        - Carry incomplete knowledge
        - Is not solving a real problem but just playing a blame game
        - is a IT job holder and knows only that (limited point of view)
        - Forgotten that he himself is immigrant (may be not of this generation)
        - Creates his own emails at home and posts here with the foreign names in the email
        - Uses very abusive and provocative language (if he can not talk properly how can he have a good point)
        - May be already fired or on the stage of getting fired due to lack of performance
        - He don’t realize that the many managers are immigrants in the companies like Robotics, electronics, chip design….how will they let that happen when they hire somebody of same race as they are….you dumb ass!

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roy-Lawson/670514336 Roy Lawson

      If you want to live up to your moniker of “truth_beacon” how about a dose of truth?  What you are saying is pure fiction. 

      We have ample data indicating that most H-1b workers are paid less.  42,501 of the visas went to just 12 offshore outsourcing firms. Do you think these firms are paying top dollar?  If so you know nothing about how this industry works.  They are paid the absolute worst.

      Don’t believe me.  Go read the data.  Don’t post a response until you have the basic information to discuss this matter.  I don’t debate people on opinion but on facts and right now you don’t have much to offer in the fact department.  I’m being gentle with you because I have been studying this issue for over a decade and you apparently just entered the class.  You have much to learn.  If you really want a dialogue understand the basics and then let’s talk.

  • Bill__Kennedy

    Often forgotten in the happy-talk by H1-B proponents are some of the downsides.  Recent events have caused everyone to realize that US business and government computer networks are poorly defended against hostile attack.  What makes such attacks far more dangerous is having trusted insiders onsite.  H1-Bs in general have no great reason to be loyal to the US, as they spend 6 years working, often exploited, before they maybe get a green card.  China is the second biggest user of H1-B, and Russia is also a major user.

    “China’s intelligence services, as well as private companies, frequently seek to exploit Chinese citizens or people with family ties to China who can use their insider access to U.S. corporate networks to steal trade secrets using thumb drives or e-mail, according to a report by the Office of the National Counterintelligence Executive.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/us-said-to-be-target-of-massive-cyber-espionage-campaign/2013/02/10/7b4687d8-6fc1-11e2-aa58-243de81040ba_story.html

    • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

      Kind of hard to defend against attacks when you hire foreign enemies masquerading and guest workers to run your systems. In fact, just such an Indian national was arrested and jailed for sabotaging Fannie Mae servers with a logic bomb Google “Fannie Mae logic bomb” and see what comes up.

      According to Ira Winkler’s book “Corporate Espionage”, many many many of these people we let into our organizations from other countries are, in fact, INDUSTRIAL SPIES.

      How does letting your COMPETITORS into your companies to steal everything in sight help your economy. It doesn’t it helps THEIR economies. Oh wait, maybe that’s why China and India are booming when 15 years ago they couldn’t even begin to compete with us.

    • kmichael3

       OMG, where do these people spring from?

  • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

    Angry jealous foreigners have been deliberately keeping Americans out of IT jobs for close to 15 years. Now they complain they’re facing deportation and having trouble? What goes around comes around. These people were supposed to only be here until 2002 when Y2K ended. Instead they have taken over and are keeping Americans out of jobs. Just look at the following internal Sun email. Note the names of the 2 email groups it was sent to:

    ——– Original Message ——–

    Subject: Sr. Electrical Engineer Position available @ Oplink
    Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:40:35 -0700 (PDT)
    From: Julie Koo
    Reply-To: Julie Koo Julie.Koo@Sun.COM

    ————- Begin Forwarded Message ————-

    Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:43:52 -0700
    From: Sabrina Chan
    Subject: Sr. Electrical Engineer Position available @ Oplink
    To: chinatown2000@sun.com, indians_ca@sun.com
    MIME-version: 1.0 X-Accept-Language: en
    Original-recipient: rfc822;chinatown2000@sun.com

    Hi, The company my friend works at is currently looking for a Senior Electrical Engineer. If you know any qualified applicants, please have them send their resume directly to: trinal@oplink.com. Attached below is a copy of the job description. Oplink is a telecommunications company.

    Thanks”

    Also note that Sun WENT OUT OF BUSINESS WITH FOREIGN WORKERS FROM ASIA RUNNING IT.
     

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roy-Lawson/670514336 Roy Lawson

      I really wish you would find a different tone.  You are hurting us with the rhetoric.  I’m not sure what makes you believe that acting like an angry biggot would help our cause.  It’s detrimental. 

      I have a theory that you are a plant by some industry group to marginalize us all.  You post with an alias.  If I were an industry group looking to discredit and marginalize us, I would probably do exactly what you are doing.

      So that being say: who are you?  Who do you work for?  If IT administrators are reading this of this site, I hope they are logging IP addresses.  Guys – please check to see if the resolves back to an outsourcing company or some other organization with an agenda (overseas?  NASCOM?).

      I’m starting to feel like a conspiracy theorist myself by laying these accusations.  I have no proof that you aren’t simply an angry biggoted person… but it’s just too perfect and convienent for you to exist.  I’ve always suspected but boy would I like proof. 

      So if you really care about this issue and support correcting the very flawed H-1b tone it down.  You are really hurting us.  I’d rather have no support than this type of support.

      • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

        Not rhetoric, FACTS. Exposing what these people are really doing here is paramount to ending this nonsense. I’m not the biggot – the ones shown above in the email are as “chinatown2000″ and “indians_ca” demonstrate. Wake up your country is being stolen out from under you by Asians.

        The whole world are biggots. Get used to it. Why are only Americans not allowed to be?

        Singaporeans BTW are rioting against mass invasion currently demanding “Singapore for Singaporeans”. Why are they allowed to?

        There are no guest worker visas for 4 million Americans to go rob jobs in India and China. Talk about biggotry. They can come here but we can’t go there. Why in this new world of globalization are some nations allowed to be biggots but others aren’t.

        When we all play by the same rules, get back to me, until then what goes around comes around.

        I am not a plant I am an American IT worker born here who has worked in software for 20 years including at Apple and Sony.

        I have no affiliation with any group or company. I am merely an American exposing the truth.

        And no, I am not dumb enough to allow people to trace my IP.

        We are in an economic race war Roy, that’s what this is. Wake up to it or else go put your head back in the sand.

      • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

        Wanna see bigotry? Here you go:

        Infosys senior level meetings : “We will dump 6 million Indians in US and capture their entire IT market and no American will ever come to know about this. We will throw these Americans out of their own country. They don’t know what we are doing over here.”

    • ollieallears

      There you are again, citing 10 year old emails. Stop weakening the argument !

  • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

     From: Rajesh Kumar Ramachandran

    Subject: Listen to me A******!!
    Date: Wed, 19 May 2010 20:49:20 -0700 (PDT)

    Now listen carefully to me a******.. dont
    just bark around in the corner like a rabies stricken stray dog about
    your pathetic views about politics and jobs. If your insecure about your
    skills and abilities thats your f****** problem not Indians or any
    other politicians.. Well you want me to provoke you well then hear this,
    we are gonna take all your jobs away.. we gonna make sure that you dont
    even have money to buy s*** and eat, we gonna take evrything thatwas
    yours. we gonna drape the Statue of Liberty with a saree (you
    dont know wahta saree iis, well its a dress which Indian women wear)..
    now get your f****** stinking face out of here A******!!!!!

    • andygoswildy

       Looks like “Rage Against Fraudy” is,
      - Racist
      - Jealous
      - Carry incomplete knowledge
      - Is not solving a real problem but just playing a blame game
      - is a IT job holder and knows only that (limited point of view)
      - Forgotten that he himself is immigrant (may be not of this generation)
      - Creates his own emails at home and posts here with the foreign names in the email
      - Uses very abusive and provocative language (if he can not talk properly how can he have a good point)
      - May be already fired or on the stage of getting fired due to lack of performance

      • andygoswildy

         Hey…what happened to you comment Mr “Rage Against Fraudy”…why did you deleted it…scared/

  • The_Madness_Must_Stop

    H1B’s are under fire, because, well, simply put – they suck and are harmful for our economy. IF they really are so great, why is it such a hard sell to get everyone on board? Why, because all the people in the know, are fully aware that the system is full of fraud and corruption, and absolutely 1000% they are used to depress wages and to help fix india’s unemployment problems – that’s not why you and I are paying ever-increasing taxes in this country. Lie are lie, lame argument after lame argument, they all fall like leaves in Autumn. First it’s how they H1B’s are superior to American workers, then it’s how H1b’s are helping our economy and not kicking out taxpaying citizens, then it’s how H1B’s all get paid six-figure salaries, then it’s about how every H1b is creating patents printing-press-style and how each one is the next Einstein or Google-inventor, it goes on and on. The last one I heard was how bringing in more H1b’s will reduce inequality in this country -??? – I don’t know how that would happen, or if that’s even something we want; I don’t want to live in a place where hard-workers and producers get paid less than the inefficient ones ( the H1b’s ). With every impotent pro-H1b argument easily shot down, another one even more ridiculous pops up with no merit. And when you see that the vast majority H1b’s are used by indian and American outsourcing companies like Tata, WipePro and InfoSh*t, mostly foreign companies that have zero interest in anything but exploiting  jobs and an industry/profession that was created in large part by America, you know that H1b’s are toxic crap for our economy and society. In the end, when the ugly H1b truth finally shows itself, all the pro-H1b’s shout out that American STEM workers are “racists” for not letting in more H1b’s, because we refuse to train replacement workers, and give up what we’ve worked hard for, so that makes us all xenophobes and horrible bigots…END H1B NOW!!!! NO MORE F-ING INCREASES – CONTACT YOUR REP’S TODAY !!!

  • Dave Chapman

    My grandmother’s people came to this country 10,000 years ago. Not everybody is a (recent) immigrant.

    • andygoswildy

      I see…so europeans must have fucked you up and took all your rights of the land that you might have been owning…

      come on…what are you talking Dave…10,000 years ago…seriously…you MUST be red indian…byt the way do you guys know why they call native americans red indian…that was the mistake by Robber Columbous…but Robber Vasco-da-Gama found it eventually….

      • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

        The natives didn’t deserve the land. They were barbarians living in mud huts, smoking dope, and killing each other in tribal wars. If white people had not come to N. America, the modern world would not exist. And that includes the internet. So if you don’t like whitey, stop using the internet.

        Most of N. America was EMPTY when “robber Columbus” came here. And he brought the modern world that the rest of the world is now trying to copy.

        Ingrate. Without Europeans there would be no civilization.

        • andygoswildy

           REally Dady…who spoke to you that in your ear about what happened back then….why don’t you go back where you came from and make your country heritage….you are just doing jibber-jabber and want to take the credit of the things which you are not even a part of…

        • ollieallears

          Of course. And somebody who writes crap like this wants to be taken seriously in a discussion about h1B visas. I must second what somebody else already wrote. You are here to discredit those that have real arguments, facts figures about the abuse of non-immigrant worker programs like H1B. Any chance of having our voices heard is negated by your improper contributions. Thanks !

  • immigrantlivingthedream

    I think a rule where the minimum salary for an H1-B being set to $100,000 would be easier to implement and weed out employers who abuse or game the system. I don’t see much room for a loop hole from a straight forward rule like that.

    I see scope for abuse from the present requirement where the salary is based on the labor condition application which lists positions and the minimum wages as the lower end of prevailing wages based on state. Prevailing wages which are figured out and maintained by the government can be out of date or out of touch with the industry. In this case, prevailing wages can be used by an employer as a subsidy and therefore turns out to be a loop hole for abuse.

    Genuine employers that really do face a shortage shouldn’t find $100,000 a big problem because that should be close to the compensation they already pay for such employees for required skills. If it isn’t, they should consider it as a premium for availing such benefits.

    • David Lanciault

      Yes, I’m getting paid well in Canada, and am looking to come to America to be with my girlfriend whom I see a few times a month when I fly down.  It’s hard finding work in America that pays anything near what I’m used to getting here.  Seriously depressed wages to do the skilled work I’m doing (systems admin for small oil firm).

      • http://twitter.com/RAFraudwha Rage Against Fraudy

        Wait…. I thought immigrants were supposed to keep America booming? You mean to tell me after decades of importing millions of them the opposite has happened? I am SHOCKED! Stay in Canada, you’re not welcome here.

        • ollieallears

          David, you are welcome ! but you probably must marry the girlfriend to make that happen, since non-immigrant work related visas have become such a mess. Some posters get confused over the abuse of the H1B and other programs by employers and start to lash out to everything and everyone.

  • andygoswildy

     Thanks for the response to my thoughts folks…but did you observe….Somebody is deleting 
    comments which has very powerful points. Even this site is completely
    controlled…they keep only the comments which are against immigration. That is not a good game buddy…whoever controlling is site – not good – this is called back stabbing…..somebody deleted mine and one of my friends comment…
    Delete those American people’s comment who are using racist/abusive language so openly…wow – what a American People!

    • ollieallears

      No – some of you thoughts are removed because they are repulse, and not enough are deleted in my view. Thanks to thinking like this we will always have wars, people will always get maimed and/or end up dead. It also eludes me what your unpleasantness has to do with the H1B issue.

  • andygoswildy

    This is dedicated to all those racist who think there skin color is superior….especially those white people…

    When you guys just learned crawling and hunting for the flesh on your panties,
    Indians did this,
    - invented zero
    - made major inventions in astronomy (right from calculating the distance between earth and moon)
    - 10,000yrs ago theyn knew the earth is round
    Chinese
    - invented paper
    - invented lot of things in military
    Egyptian
    - invented big structures
    - lot of stuff in chemical technology

    Whites
    - Robbers in gentelman suites
    - Attacked every single country possible they can and lootes everything (they have term for that – colonisation) WTF
    - killed thousands of people on the name of conversions
    - burnt thousand of books to destroy civilisations (what a fucking idiots are they)
    - Slavery
    - Divide and conquer
    - Stolen other civilisation’s inventions and call their own
    - just discover or re-engineer
    Why the hell do you think GBP and other european currency has such a high price? Everything is looted.

    Even Kohinoor diamond in England’s queen’s necklace is stolen from India…robbers
    Lot of egyptian stuff can be found in UK…stolen

    French, Dutch, Portuguese are not different…they are same as English

    And now they act like America is theirs….they are like parasite…they go everywhere, divide people, and then own their stuff like theirs – a reptilian mentality…

    • http://profile.yahoo.com/7TLEXLX4WKQ5RRMRVJJ4M7L4GY Against Treason

      @andygoswildy aka Perdeep Gupta the Illegal!
      You seem to have a deep problem with the Brits, that’s your problem! Americans delt with the Brits the correct way, we kicked their royal rear-end right back to moldy old england, while some your country men sucked up to the brits and they never left and now you are bitter. That’s Too bad. It has nothing what so ever to do with the US! As to Americans cannot compete with the Indians, well No one can. As Americas live 4 to 5 per family in a 3 Bedroom, 2 baths home and the Indians live 50 to 60 in a 2 room apartment. Americans take a showers, brush their teeth, and new put on a new set of cloths EVERY SINGLE DAY!
      I am not sure if Indians ever take a shower or brush their teeth. They all seem
      to wear the some set of cloths EVERYDAY. Because of that, the SMELL is
      Over-bearing. Currently Indian are the most HATED people around the world, and
      it’s not Racial, not at all. In fact it’s the Indians who win the top prize award for being the most racist, arrogant, and the most corrupt, king of fraud, deep suck ups, cheap labor pimps, of anyone around the world. India very much needs to stop breeding like   cockroaches and infecting the whole world.
      Indians need to Stay home, and look at themselves, and start spending the
      energy at improving India for ALL INDIANS! And STOP all the FRAUD, RACISM, and all the Caste system crap in India before it’s too late. Try to make India
      a Global village like America is, adapt yourself to be like America or else you will ALWAYS be DEAD LAST like India is today.

      • andygoswildy

        I don’t care if you talk about india or china or other country…..but all I can say is…every DOG has his days….and today is America’s …. don’t be arrogant because sooner the later you will be joining the club of collapsed kingdom’s or nations….

        I deeply feel that your are  whity-white cracker – some kinda european decedent…insulted by what I wrote…

        burnt…needs aloe vera gel

        BTW – please go back and check your knowledge…most hated are muslims – again the propaganda created by Americans…

        What the fuck were you guys doing in Afghanistan and then startled “oops…we didn’t know that there was trillion dollar worth of stuff below the ground”…yeah right!

        What the heck are you doing in Israel – supporting bad-jew’s war….

        Why do you guys HAVE to start some kind of war to boost your economy…

        My deal is – I f I don’t visit the country – I don’t know the people – I keep my mouth shut instead of shooting in the dark – “what might be there and how are the families leaving there..n stuff.”

        you are still kid thinking America is the only world out there

    • http://twitter.com/factchecker2000 Fluffy Mergatryod

      It is this attitude (sadly common in the third world) which shows why the west must not let large numbers of these folks in. This attitude is also why, when foreign “entrepreneurs” form companies in the west, they usually don’t hire many or even any westerners, but simply use their companies as vehicles to import more of their countrymen. We already give the third world princely amounts of aid. We don’t owe them our jobs, our homes, and our country. Third world workers in America have imported ugly discrimination (race, age, gender) and are working to turn back 100 years of labor rights progress. No thank you.

    • The_Madness_Must_Stop

      enough with your lame victim mentality. slumdogs fought for their independence, from England, they got it, and then they proceeded to trash their country for the next several decades. Now, instead of cleaning up your own house, you rather come to the US, the UK, Canada, Australia and take what isn’t yours. Stay home and build some toilets and fix your own country, your job-robbing ways are not welcome anymore in the U.S..NO MORE H1B JOB ROBBERS !!!

    • ollieallears

      And you are amazed some of your posting got removed ? No poster, pro or contra the topic, has the right to insult other posters, residents of other countries, or other cultures. All the things you mention are either half true or so far in the past they have no bearing upon what is happening now. You are really bringing down your level. And please read some up on history, you need it.

      Oh and if you write can you lose all those pointless …… please.

  • http://www.facebook.com/wmolina Wayne Molina

    The issue here is that we have more than enough US citizens willing to train and get jobs in technology/engineering, so why do we NEED to bring in more foreigners?  We need to take care of our own people first and THEN worry about visas for foreigners, talented or not.  We already HAVE the talent, and are ignoring them.

  • Sameer Dhamankar

    I am Sameer Dhamankar.
    I need Free Canada Visa

  • John80224

    I haven’t forgotten about the fields you mention but ([IC design] + robotics + [device driver] + statistician) < [offshore outsourcing] when it comes to use of this visa–and that leaves out broader IT.  Do you have any idea how many articles I've seen on the visa that expressly sidestep the mention of India, IT or outsourcing?  It's the elephant in the room.  I suggest that rather than complaining that your minority field isn't getting more press your effort would be better spent on addressing why the visa I assume you're on or interested in is getting so much backlash from its most used and abused field.
     
    Were the abuse limited to a couple examples, do you really believe there would be such resistence?  There have been hundreds of thousands of examples.  The LCA data is available for you to verify this.

    India and China are nations of immigrants.  You just have to go back further.  Most of us aren't anti-immigrant.  Most of us are anti-government-supplied-tools-for-companies-to-damage-the-nations-citizens.  I believe there can be a version of immigration that complements the existing workforce.  The current way the H-1b is primarily used, however, parasytic.

    "It is not your jobs to decide anyways…it is Govt. job"  Civics lesson, here.  It is in fact my job to decide/influence the decision.  That's at least a right (and many feel a duty) of being a citizen of the US.  The government is (theoretically) our collective employee.

  • andygoswildy

    John80224, I do agree about the Civic lesson that you mentioned – it was my bad to say so.

    I think there are other problems –
    1. increasing Quota of H1-B or not
    2. What to do with the existing H1B holders
    3. What to do with the workers who have been applying for green cards and waiting to be citizen so they can add more into the economy

    I think this should be thought out properly. Changing the number of H1B is not a solution. Anybody can build an empire – but maintenance can not be neglected. So I think it is a problem of maintenance what Govt. is facing not necessarily the shortage (ofcourse only in certain areas). So, I think IT should be made a separate sub-category and then Visa should be processed based on the that, as IT skills and people can be acquired by anybody-anywhere who has a logical sense to do basic coding and such – it doesn’t necessarily requires hard-core programming expertise…

    Being a foreigner, I understand that H1B is abused by the IT companies…but isn’t it Govt’s job to implement the policies to support the decision that they made….

    I would say…give green card to the existing HIGHLY skilled people and then there will be no more H1b quota increases required….That will solve major problems, because then Govt. will not have anything to complaint – e.g. shortage of labour and stuff. If they give GreenCard to the people sooner which they think are the highly skilled population..then there will be citizens in the pipeline to add more into US economy.

    Actually US Govt. created the shortage problem by not giving green cards faster to the highly skilled workers..because they are highly skilled – they don’t wait for green card years and years, they simply go back their country and create their own companies….duhhhh

  • John80224

    And my apologies if I seemed to lash out.  I can see the frustration of often encountering backlash as you do.  I’ve been characterized as lazy, stupid and outdated on the other side of the discussion by people who assume I’m a woman for no more reason (I think) than they believe that would somehow make me less worthy of consideration.

    My general fear is that companies find it much easier to work around well-intended programs that government seems impotent to fix.  My specific fear with I-squared is that with no change, not only would IT be run out of the country even faster, but that other STEM fields would have enough visas available to follow a similar model.  Offshoring and globalization will continue, I just don’t support my government accelerating it to the detriment of its people.

    I don’t have all the answers but I wouldn’t suggest (barring outright fraud, serious crime, etc.) sending everyone home. 
    Automatic GC’s across STEM scare me somewhat.  They solve the exploitive side of the wage equation, but could very quickly flood supply in fields.  But I’m open to some middle ground.

    The visa itself could stay, even expand if overhauled.  Starting with common sense, this nation in theory does not stand for discrimination and exploitation.   No more 90% of domestic staff from one nation, unless that nation is the US.  No more 90% of staff under age 40.  No more “work 80 hours…or else.”  Some real wage criteria needs to be met and it must be based on the field as a whole and position. 

    Weakening the employer hold on the visa holder is one key.  For example, it might make sense to extend the length of time a visa holder can be unemployed so long as they can take care of themselves.  I’d like to see fees escalate and red tape diminish.  As it stands, I think attorneys are making more on the visa system than any training programs.  I’d also like to see a change in higher education.  There’s comparatively very little value to an advanced degree for domestic students.

  • SamHarnett

    Interesting points Andy. 

    One of the knots in this whole process is determining who is truly “high skilled.” Wage seems to be a possible solution.

    The new blue card in the EU would rely on salaries heavily to determine who could immigrate. But then again, there’s a whole debate about what those wages should be.

    http://www.dw.de/german-blue-card-to-simplify-immigration/a-15915424

  • andygoswildy

     Thanks for the response…but di you observe….Somebody is deleting my comments which has very powerful points. Even this site is completely controlled…they keep only the comments which are against immigration. That is not a good game buddy…whoever controlling is site – not good – this is called back stabbing…..

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Roy-Lawson/670514336 Roy Lawson

    In my mind salary is the best arbitor.  If it is truly a skill in high demand with a shortage, it should demand a high salary.  Otherwise we’ve got to re-examine the who concept of supply and demand.

    Yes, there would certainly be a debate as to what the wages should be. 

    I would apply two measures – sort by salary and grant to the highest.  Set a minimal salary at the 75th percentile.  Make this a race to the top instead a race to the bottom.  You could also include other factors (like level of education).  But let’s at least try to be smarter than our current approach that is essentially random and cares about those who file first more than who the most qualified are.