Anchor Marco Werman speaks with Global Post reporter, Tom Phillips, who covered a police operation this weekend that took control of one of Brazil’s largest and most lawless slums.

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Marco Werman: Brazilian security forces are making headlines too, more positive ones though. In Rio de Janeiro over the weekend police forces backed by helicopters peacefully took control of one of the country’s largest and most lawless slums. The sprawling favela of Hosinia. It was part of an official campaign to restore security in Rio before Brazil hosts the 2014 Soccer World Cup and the 2016 Summer Olympics. Tom Phillips is a reporter with Global Post. He covered the pre-dawn operation and joins us now. So, 3,000 heavily armed troops stormed the favela, Tom, it’s home to more than 100,000 people, and yet authorities claim not a single shot was fired. Sounds like a success, was it?

Tom Phillips: Yes, I think it’s fair to say it was a success. It was an unusual kind of operation. Normally in the past the police have launched secretive last minute operations going into slums without any warning. This pacification operation as they’re called them are being announced several weeks in advance. Drug traffickers therefore have the time to try and flee, which is what happened this weekend.

Werman: Right, so where did they go and what’s to keep them from returning to Hosinia?

Phillips: Well, most of the big ones are now in police custody. The “Boss of Hosinia” was arrested trying to sneak out of the slum last Wednesday night in a car with his lawyers and a man who claimed to be a Congolese diplomat rather bizarrely.

Werman: Right, I read about that, yeah.

Phillips: Yeah, so they offered a big bribe to police, but were eventually arrested as several other drug traffickers were arrested a few hours before that, and they were being escorted rather interestingly out of the slums by a group of corrupt police officers.

Werman: What made this operation different because as you said, the previous attempts to rest control of the favelas from drug traffickers have ended poorly, sometimes in bloodshed.

Phillips: Yeah, very often in bloodshed and very often [inaudible 1:41] as they have been very, very violent police operations that have ended with multiple deaths. What makes it different as I said, is that this is part of what the police here are calling the pacification project. So the idea there is that there is violence and the idea is that the police, once they go into the slums rather than going in killing someone or arresting someone and moving out, the police are now staying. That is the big difference.

Werman: I guess the question is if the police kind of semi-permanently occupy the favelas, can they permanently pacify the slums as well?

Phillips: The whole point of this game, police and government officials say, is not to prevent the drug trafficking, it’s to get the big weapons off the streets. So we’re talking about 1,000 slums in Rio, many of which have been over the last 25-30 years occupied by armed gangs carrying M16 assault rifles and AK-47s, often Bazookas. Once a Bazooka was found [inaudible 2:34] maybe a year ago.

Werman: Hm.

Phillips: So the idea there is to get rid of those guns, not necessarily to get rid of drug trafficker, and most of the pacified sums are located either in the tourist beach zone or near the World Cup installations. So the west side of the city and much of the north side is still business as usual there as it were.

Werman: So the police see some pretty big guns this weekend. They also uncovered some pretty wild and unexpected things in the raid, considering this is a slum. What are we talking about?

Phillips: One of the federal drug squads came across a house of a chap called Fish, which was down a very cramped alley way filled with houses made of bit of wood and red brick, not particularly wealthy people at all. And then at the end you came to a similar looking building, but inside we found a rather striking swimming pool with an electronic reclining booth[? 3:21]. We found an immaculately decorated nursery perhaps for one of his children, a gym, and given the drug trafficker’s name was Fish, there was a rather exotic looking aquarium filled with multicolored fish from all over the place. So rather a contrast compared to the poverty that does exist in Hosinia. It shows you how much these guys make out of drug trafficking.

Werman: They have a descent profit margin. Tom Phillips of Global Post speaking to us from Rio de Janeiro. Thank you, Tom.

Phillips: Thank you.

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Lisa Mullins: The political unrest in Senegal seems to fit right in with the uprisings of the Arab Spring. But there’s no such thing as an African Spring, and as we mentioned uprisings against repressive governments have not taken hold in Sub-Saharan Africa – at least not yet. Andrew Meldrum is the Africa editor for the online news site GlobalPost. He says there is a thirst for change in Sub-Saharan Africa.

Andrew Meldrum: There are signs of populations really being inspired by the Arab Spring and saying we want more democracy in our countries. However, it hasn’t resulted in an immediate domino effect, but in Sub-Saharan Africa there are specific countries that have entrenched governments where there is a sign of revitalized popular demonstrations.

Mullins: What is the sign and which countries are you…

Meldrum: Well…

Mullins: … think are inspired.

Meldrum: … I would say one is Senegal, which we’ve just heard about. Another, similar, is in Uganda. There have been a series of demonstration in Kampala. Several people have been killed, and so that is a kind of simmering problem.

Mullins: But there are often simmering problems that we’ve heard of including in Ivory Coast that happen post-elections. What makes something like this, in particular, look like it has the potential to end up in some kind of a revolt, if not deposing a government?

Meldrum: Well, the first thing is that in Uganda they are referring specifically to Mubarak. They are referring specifically to what happened in Tunisia.

Mullins: They being…

Meldrum: The demonstrators against Yoweri Museveni.

Mullins: And where are you hearing that, by the way? I mean, can you see it? Is it social media? Is it more through old fashioned sloganeering? How is it…

Meldrum: Yes. I do see it on Facebook. I see postings that people put on Facebook in response to, let’s say, a GlobalPost article. And in interviews with men on the street, our reporters there say people, that we have quotes from people saying this is what we want.

Mullins: Meaning they want Yoweri Museveni to leave?

Meldrum: They don’t want Yoweri Museveni to leave, but they want to feel that they have full, free and fair elections.

Mullins: And is this different from what you’ve seen before?

Meldrum: It is because they’re not just talking about their own country. They’re pointing to other countries and saying, that’s what we want here as well.

Mullins: And beyond Uganda, where else do you see it?

Meldrum: Zimbabwe, where Robert Mugabe has a firm hold. I see a lot of social media comments saying, what are we waiting for? Why has everybody else gotten democracy and yet Mugabe still has us under his thumb. And, of course, Mugabe does have the Zimbabwean population under his thumb. He has laws that prevent any public demonstration of three people or more without previous police approval. Well, OK, you can’t have something like Tahrir Square in Egypt if five people immediately gets hit by police, and that’s what happens in Zimbabwe.

Mullins: What are the differences in terms of how the revolutions are expressing themselves, to the extent they are, in Sub-Saharan Africa versus in the Middle East.

Meldrum: I would say, one is that in a lot of the Arab countries the leadership had become complacent. They were caught unawares by the demonstrations. Also, the armies made a decision not to back the entrenched leaders and instead to back the demonstrators. Once you see a split of the security forces from the political leadership, that’s when you’re going to see change.

Mullins: If we see a split.

Meldrum: If we see a split.

Mullins: Alright. Thank you very much. Andrew Meldrum. Africa editor for the online news site GlobalPost talking to us about the possibility of an African Spring, or I guess by now African Summer. Andy Meldrum, thank you.

Meldrum: Thank you, Lisa.

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Click here to read The World’s four-part series “Inside the Taliban.”

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This text below is a phonetic transcript of a radio story broadcast by PRI’s THE WORLD. It has been created on deadline by a contractor for PRI. The transcript is included here to facilitate internet searches for audio content. Please report any transcribing errors to theworld@pri.org. This transcript may not be in its final form, and it may be updated. Please be aware that the authoritative record of material distributed by PRI’s THE WORLD is the program audio.

LISA MULLINS: The democratic struggle in Afghanistan also says a lot about America’s efforts there.

CHARLIE SENNOTT: This election is not only a political contest; it’s really a test of the Obama administration’s policy in Afghanistan and its entire counterinsurgency campaign.

MULLINS: Charlie Sennott is executive editor and co-founder of the international news site, Global Post.

SENNOTT: If their goal was security for the Afghan people, today was not a good day for the US coalition forces or the Afghan people.

MULLINS: Well I think what we’ve been hearing is that the goal was to have an election that was considered viable knowing that there would be some kind of violence. Is the very fact that the election could go on a sign that the United States at least partially got what it wants or do you think that’s spin?

SENNOTT: I think it’s spin. I don’t think it’s good enough to say they just held an election. I mean they did that in 2004.

MULLINS: Is it good enough for the Afghan people though?

SENNOTT: I don’t think it’s good enough for the Afghan people either. I think the Afghan people are growing impatient with a desire to have a country that is secure and that moves forward and the more the US calls the Taliban the enemy and views it as a monolithic force the more they’re going to miss the point that the Taliban has a constituency. And in Afghanistan the shifting of allegiances is part of the history of that country. And I feel like the US military presence and the coalition presence is denying that part of the history. And I’m wondering if after this elections they’re not going to more more fully embrace the complexity of the place and begin to really look at that as a possibility of doing what President Obama has called for which is to negotiate with moderate elements to the Taliban.

MULLINS: How about in terms of the previous election. This is not the first presidential election. The first one happened in 2004. Isn’t the fact there seems to be something of a sequence right now a good sign even if there is violence which everyone expected or vote rigging?

SENNOTT: This time it feels like this nascent democracy has taken a few steps forward but I still question whether or not the US fulfilled its goal of providing the security that was required for the Afghan people to go out and vote. And you know we’re going to find out now as we get the results in but it certainly feels like it was not a spectacular success and in fact there were many areas of failure.

MULLINS: Let’s look at the outcome. If Hamid Karzai is reelected, which is what’s expected to happen, does that mean that the Afghan people are impressed by what’s he done? And does that mean that the United States by what he’s done? I mean does the US have a stake n keeping him in office?

SENNOTT: The US has had this on-again-off-again relationship with Karzai. It is on again right now. And if in this election Karzai is elected I think the US is going to have to work very closely with him in the really difficult challenges that lie ahead in beginning to open up negotiations with the Taliban on one front and then really going forward with the offensive on what General Petraeus calls the irreconcilables, those with whom negotiations are not possible.

MULLINS: But Charlie Sennott you were just back in Afghanistan for your work with Global Post as a cooperative with The World, with our program. If you can take a step back, because you’ve been there many times, in terms of the American effort there which is so prominent and growing, is Afghanistan doing well by the US?

SENNOTT: It is extraordinary to see just how far Afghanistan has come. You know I was with Seamus Murphy who did these beautiful photographs – over 15 years of one family. And through those photographs I was reminded of the incredible devastation and destruction of Kabul n the mid-1990s, even the late 90s, even when we all came in 2001, the place was devastated. It was a failed state. And where it is today is a lot further along and we can’t forget that. At the same time, right now the US presence in Afghanistan is at a crossroads and I think it’s very confusing to understand which direction is it going in. Is this a counterinsurgency campaign with an increase of 21,000 troops intended to finally crush the Taliban or is it intended to become a security force that will allow the provincial reconstruction teams to build the country and give its own sense of governance? It really is one or the other because they’re very different goals. And we have to establish what our goal is if the US and coalition forces are going to succeed. And right now that’s not clear and that lack of clarity will continually undercut the campaign.

MULLINS: Charlie Sennott, thank you.

SENNOTT: Thank you.

MULLINS: Charlie Sennott is executive editor and cofounder of Global Post, an international news website. He recently returned from Afghanistan and Pakistan where he reported a four-part series for The World. You can find, “Inside the Taliban” at The World dot org.

Copyright ©2009 PRI’s THE WORLD. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to PRI’s THE WORLD. This transcript may not be reproduced, in whole or in part, without prior written permission. For further information, please email The World’s Permissions Coordinator at theworld@pri.org.

The World offers this audio podcast of Sennott’s four-part radio series, “Inside the Taliban:”

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GlobalPost offers an amazing mix of stories, photos and videos:

Life, Death and the Taliban

The PBS NewsHour with Jim Lehrer offers a series of videos:

Profiles of the Taliban

Even more is available on our Inside the Taliban series page.

How We Got Here is back after a vacation hiatus. Journalist Otto Pohl journeys back to Moscow to find out who shot him during a demonstration in 1993. Veteran foreign correspondent Charles Sennott returns to Afghanistan and Pakistan on the trail of the Taliban. And Warren Kozak tells us about the legendary American General Curtis LeMay.

Pohl was a young photographer working for The New York Times when Russian President Boris Yeltsin abruptly dissolved parliament back in October 1993.  Pohl was shot by security forces while covering a demonstration outside Moscow’s central television tower. He tells us about his journey back to Russia to understand what happened all those years ago. (He wrote a piece about it for Men’s Journal this summer.)  Charles Sennott is another reporter going back to a story he reported long ago; he returns to Afghanistan and Pakistan on the trail of the Taliban.  You’ll hear Part 1 of Charlie’s series Inside the Taliban; as you’ll see it’s a very “how we got here” treatment of the subject. It’s familiar territory for Sennott, a long time foreign correspondent for The Boston Globe and now Executive Editor of GlobalPost.  Look for a full podcast of the series with additional commentary from Charlie very soon.  And in the final segment of this week’s episode we continue our exploration of the history of bombing with a look at a new biography of a key architect of  American air power strategy during WWII and beyond.

The Taliban have risen, fallen, and then risen again in the past 15 years. The Islamist movement rose to power in Afghanistan in the mid-1990s, ruled the country in the late 90s, and fell to the US-led invasion in 2001. Nowadays, the Taliban seem to be regaining strength, not only in Afghanistan but in neighboring Pakistan. Reporter Charles Sennott covered the Taliban from their rise in Afghanistan, to their ouster in 2001. Sennott recently returned to Afghanistan and Pakistan to do a series of reports on the history and fluctuating fortunes of the Taliban. Sennott begins his series with a visit to a refugee camp in northwest Pakistan. There, he meets Pakistanis displaced by the fighting between the country’s military, and Taliban forces. Sennott travels to the camp with Rahimullah Yusufzai, the Pakistani journalist who is widely credited with making the first report on the Taliban in 1994, and who has interviewed Osama bin Laden several times. Looking around the camps, Yusufzai tells Sennott: “It’s a familar story I think. When I look at these camps, I remember the camps for Afghan refugees, which became the nursuries for the Afghan Taliban. Some of them joined Al-Qaeda. So, maybe this is being repeated.”

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PART I

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Read the transcript of Part I of Inside the Taliban here.

PART II

Pakistan is now a crucial battleground in the fight against Islamist extremism. The fighting and the disruption of life for more than two million displaced people is putting a severe strain on the country. Some of those displaced are now returning. In Part Two of our series Inside the Taliban, Charles Sennott reports on Pakistan’s new internal war on terror, and how the country has turned against the movement it once supported.

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PART III

Sally Goodrich in Afghanistan. 2007. Photo by Jean Chung

Peter Goodrich was a victim of the September 11 attacks in 2001. He was a passenger on the second plane that crashed into the World Trade Center. Goodrich was 33 years old; his parents were devastated. But Peter’s mother, Sally Goodrich, found a way to honor his life. She raised money to build a school for girls in Afghanistan’s Logar Province. In 2007, Sally Goodrich journeyed from her Vermont home to Afghanistan, to visit the school she helped build. Charles Sennott traveled with her, and filed this report for The World. You can find more pictures, and a transcript of that original story here.

Now, fast forward to 2009. In today’s Afghanistan, schools for girls lie directly on the front line in the war against the Taliban. Almost daily, girls’ schools are bombed and burned. The Afghan Ministry of Education now estimates that at least 20 percent of its 11,000 schools across the country are in districts under control of the Taliban. For our Inside the Taliban series, Charles Sennott and Sally Goodrich return to the school she helped build, only to find that it now appears to be under control of the Taliban.

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PART IV

In the final part of our series on the Taliban, Charles Sennott sat down with former Taliban leaders, clerics and US counter-insurgency experts to try to discover the minds of the Taliban and whether the US military is making any progress in understanding them.

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