Their former leader, Kim Jong-il, died 10 days ago. And Thursday, his youngest son, Kim Jong-un, led a memorial service.

Eulogies were read out in front of hundreds of thousands of soldiers and civilians as they stood, heads bowed, in the central square.

And then, there was the silence.

Silence can be a powerful thing. There’s the pause in a speech that adds extra weight. The moment of silence before a performance begins. Or, sometimes, a performance itself.

In composer John Cage’s “4 minutes, 33 seconds,” a full BBC orchestra remains silent onstage, formally dressed, instruments poised. This audience is first game, then restless. Tension builds.

Finally, the first “movement” ends, and the conductor turns the page and wipes his brow.

The audience laughs, some cough, and there’s palpable release, even after just a couple of minutes of shared total silence.

Thursday, North Koreans shared their own silence – kind of.

Horns blared in the country’s capital, marking the three minutes North Koreans were to stand silent, shoulder to shoulder in public squares, bowing to mourn the passing of the man they called Dear Leader.

The ceremony was also meant to turn a page, as with a speech by a top general.

“But now we stand by Kim Jung-un. Kim Jong-un is a great leader. We will serve Kim Jong-un as the highest official. And under his leadership, we will complete this nation,” the general said.

The head of North Korea’s legislature also said, “Respected Comrade Kim Jong-un is our party, military and country’s Supreme Leader, who inherits our great comrade Kim Jong-il’s ideology, leadership, character, virtues, grit and courage. “

It’s hard to know whether all those standing silent think that’s a good thing. Criticism of the Kim family is silenced in North Korea, sometimes by imprisonment, sometimes by death. Most don’t dare, and keep silent.

In China, the country’s leaders wish more Chinese would do the same. Dozens of activists and civil rights lawyers have been imprisoned and silenced this year. Two writers Chen Wei and Chen Xi, received prison sentences of a decade or so each last week – for writing articles criticizing the government and calling for political reform.

And Thursday, lawyer Ni Yulan and her husband Dong Jiqin went on trial for helping victims of government-backed land grabs. They could face their own imposed silence.

Silence can be powerful. It can be eloquent, or oppressive. It can open up new spaces for the imagination, or shut them down. Only those experiencing a silence know which it is for them. Only once the silence ends, can they say.

The silence Thursday is in contrast to the screaming and crying Wednesday during the Kim Jong-il funeral procession.

If there were any questions left as to whom now runs the reclusive state, the answer was made clear. Kim Jong-un. The son of Kim Jong-il, who’s in his late 20s, was called the Supreme Leader of the party, people and military.

Kim’s command of the North’s million strong army has some in South Korea concerned. Namely, that country’s own military conscripts.

Service in South Korea’s military starts with a buzz cut.

Lee Kwang-min’s barbershop is right outside an army post in Seoul. Soldiers drop in for their regulation shave. But Lee says, it’s not just a haircut for new conscripts, it’s a rite of passage.

“It’s kind of becoming a man,” he said with a laugh. “New life is coming.”

Soon conscript Kim Min-jun will sit in the barber’s chair. Kim was informed this week that his mandatory military duty will begin in February.

He had hoped against hope that this day would never come.

“When I was very young, I thought when I become 20 years old, which is the age you have to complete the duty of military, I thought our nation would be unified with North Korea. So it doesn’t really matter to me, I thought. That’s what I thought when I was 10 years old.”

That didn’t happen. In fact, relations between the Koreas are arguably worse now than they were a decade ago.

North Korea’s military is twice the size of the South’s. It also has a nuclear weapons program. And the North Korean army is now under the control of Kim Jong-un, who’s only in his late 20s.

Some South Koreans are concerned about the age and inexperience of North Korea’s new leader.

“The problem is that he’s too young,” said Kim Min-jun’s friend, Choi Chanyong. “In the young times, in the young ages, you can be aggressive, take risks, adventures, so what I was worrying about is that he’s young he wants to do something, he wants to show something, so he could accidentally do something”

Do something, Choi says, like launch an attack on South Korean soil. That’s not a far-fetched scenario. Last year, the North bombarded Yeonpyeong Island. Two South Korean marines and two civilians died in the shelling.

And so, Kim accepts the necessity of mandatory conscription, though, he’s not exactly looking forward to serving in the military.

“Very personally, I don’t like it,” he said. “But thinking about the country, yeah there are no options, no other options, yeah, I’ll have to accept it”

Kim says for now, he just wants to enjoy his last two months of freedom before he gets that buzz cut.

Young and untested, Kim Jong-un has all but taken over North Korea’s leadership as he leads a hearse carrying the coffin of his late father.

Lee Hyeon Seo watched some of the funeral during lunch at a restaurant in Seoul run by North Korean refugees. She’s one herself; she left North Korea in 1996 when she was 14.

Lee, who’s now 29, said watching the funeral procession, reminded her of when Kim Jong-il’s father, the North’s founding leader, Kim Il-sung, suddenly died in 1994.

“I was only 12 at the time, but I remember it being really shocking,” Lee said. “When I arrived at school, everyone was crying. I felt if I didn’t cry, then people would look at me strangely, so I just pretended. Now I’ve met other North Korean defectors who say they felt the same way too back then. I thought I was the only one who faked crying.”

Even though Lee wasn’t sure why she was crying then, many North Koreans did know, says Hyun In Ae, vice president of a Seoul-based organization made up of former North Korean elites. Hyun said many North Koreans still have great respect for Kim Il Sung, but Kim Jong Il is a different story.

“People blame Kim Jong Il for why North Korea is in such bad shape,” Hyun said, “and the government knows it. So that’s why during this mourning period they’ve given out more food and staples, and kept markets open. They’re treating the people a lot better than normal.”

Hyun and other refugees say the trick now is for Pyongyang to make the country’s new leader Kim Jong Un seem less like his father and more like his grandfather.

Defector Lee Hyeon Seo said based on the images she’s seen of Kim Jong Un from the funeral, that’s exactly what the North is trying to do.

“I’ve seen pictures of Kim Jong Un from a few years ago. He was slim then. I think he put on a lot of weight to look more like his grandfather. He even wears the same type of suit and has the same haircut,” Lee said.

Lee added that she’s not sure if North Koreans will be comforted by that for very long. But she said she hopes that Kim Jong Un will eventually earn their respect by making the kind of changes that his father and grandfather never did.

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The text below is a phonetic transcript of a radio story broadcast by PRI’s THE WORLD. It has been created on deadline by a contractor for PRI. The transcript is included here to facilitate internet searches for audio content. Please report any transcribing errors to theworld@pri.org. This transcript may not be in its final form, and it may be updated. Please be aware that the authoritative record of material distributed by PRI’s THE WORLD is the program audio.

Lisa Mullins: The World’s Mary Kay Magistad is in the capital of North Korea’s closest and perhaps only ally, China. Mary Kay watched the funeral procession on TV in Beijing today. What were your impressions?

Mary Kay Magistad: Well, it was very somber with the snow falling and the North Korean announcer saying in mournful tones that this was the sky weeping for the dear leader. There certainly was an outpouring of grief. It almost felt like the reciprocal pep rally where different sections of the crowd were trying to outdo each other in how loudly they could weep, how much they could jump up and down and bend over double as the hurst went past them. It was meant to mark the passing of a leader the people were meant to revere as a god and to allow them to see his son, Kim Jong Un, walking beside the hurst as the heir apparent. Sort of a moment for North Koreans to just concentrate their minds and recognize that they’re moving into a new era. And at least to that extent it accomplished its purpose.

Mullins: Let’s talk about the new era in a second, but you also saw the funeral, you were in South Korea at the time, of Kim Il Sung, this was Kim Jong Il’s father. He did in 1994. That was broadcast at least in South Korea, but what were the differences from that funeral to this one?

Magistad: Well, one of the similarities is that it was almost the same funeral, the same route moving the body from the same place to another place, and it was Kim Jong Il, the son, who choreographed his father’s funeral. So in a sense he also choreographed his funeral, but what was different is that for Kim Il Sung I think people still really believed in him as this supernaturally great leader. I had been in North Korea in 1989 and then again in 2005 and it was really dramatic to me how much of a difference there was in how people talked about the leadership. In 1989 it really was like they were talking about someone they believed in as though he were a god.

Mullins: This is Kim Il Sung.

Magistad: Kim Il Sung.

Mullins: The founder of modern North Korea.

Magistad: In 2005 they were still saying the words, but it almost seemed like there was an edge of cynicism as they said them. And one reason for this could be that there had been a famine in the 1990s during which between one and two million North Koreans died or believed to have died. The economy had contracted and by the time Kim Jong Il died the average North Korean lifespan is now 3-1/2 years shorter than it was when he came to power.

Mullins: Well, bearing all of that in mind could it be that the grief that we saw during this funeral procession today, could it be that it really was genuine?

Magistad: I’m sure some of it was, but the likelihood that that many people standing out in the cold for that many hours could turn it on like that when the hurst went by with that much intensity, I think some of it was probably done for theatrical effect.

Mullins: Did anything about today’s events tell you who is in control in North Korea? If it is indeed Kim Jong Il’s son, Kim Jong Un?

Magistad: Well, certainly, Kim Jong Un was walking next to the hurst and the funeral cortege. Near him were his uncle, Jang Song Taek, who is considered to be sort of a regent or at least a guide for him in his new role, and also the army chief of staff, Ri Yong Ho. So it’s sort of the old guard who are expected to give Kim Jong a fair bit of guidance as he takes up the role of leader of North Korea.

Mullins: What about South Korea, what’s the reaction been there?

Magistad: In South Korea as when Kim Il Sung died people are sort of shrugging and getting on with life. I mean I think there is a little bit of alertness to see what might Kim Jong Un do to try to earn his stripes. And just in the past year or so he’s taken a more prominent role in the party, it appears that he has clamped down a bit on North Koreans who are trying to escape to get to China, to South Korea. And there have been purges within the party that he is said to have been behind. So it’s unclear what his leadership style is going to be and how much of it is going to be him and how much of it will be those behind him, but South Koreans are certainly interested in finding out as time goes on and of course, so is China.

Mullins: The World’s Mary Kay Magistad in Beijing, thank you.

Magistad: Thank you, Lisa.

Mullins: Mary Kay has been updating her Twitter stream with the latest on North Korea. You can follow her @marykaymagistad. To get the latest news about the changing of the guard in North Korea from our partners at the BBC, extensive coverage at theworld.org.

Copyright ©2009 PRI’s THE WORLD. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to PRI’s THE WORLD. This transcript may not be reproduced, in whole or in part, without prior written permission. For further information, please email The World’s Permissions Coordinator at theworld@pri.org.

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Attached to the balloons are leaflets describing atrocities allegedly orchestrated by the North Korean leader Kim Jong Il, who died last Saturday.

The defectors shout Down with Kim Il Sung, Kim Jong Il, and now Kim Jong Un, as they released the balloons.

Park Sang Hak, who organizes frequent balloon drops into his former homeland, said, “We’re sending a message to the North Korean people about the truth about the Kim Jong Il dictatorship.”

North Korea has threatened to attack the launch site if the South Korean government doesn’t put an end to the balloon leafleting. But Seoul said it won’t interfere, saying it’s a matter of free speech.

Seoul said the same thing about an evangelical Christian group that asked for government permission to switch on Christmas lights along the Korean border. The lights can be seen from the North, and Pyongyang has called the display “psychological warfare.”

This week, Seoul changed its stance on the decorations.

Yu Woo-ik, South Korea’s Minister of Unification, said since North Korea is in a mourning period, the South Korean government has urged the religious groups to postpone the lighting of the Christmas trees.

On Thursday, the evangelical group agreed to hold off.

The Unification Ministry also said that while the government won’t offer official condolences to Pyongyang, it will allow private citizens and organizations to express sympathy via letter or fax to the North.

Seoul won’t send a delegation to Kim’s funeral either. But it will permit the wife of the late South Korean president Kim Dae Jung and the chairwoman of the Hyundai Group to attend. Pyongyang sent delegations to their husbands’ funerals.

Mixed Signals

John Delury, who lectures in East Asian Studies at Seoul’s Yonsei University, said South Korea is sending mixed signals. He added that the government’s indecision over how to respond to Kim Jong Il’s death will only add more strain to inter-Korean relations, and confuse the South Korean public.

“The deeper issue here is that the responses in South Korean society are very complex and people don’t know what they can say and can’t say,” Delury said.

But the fact that Seoul is saying anything about Kim Jong Il doesn’t sit well with for Park Sang Hak. The North Korean refugee wonders why anyone would commemorate this dictator.

“What kind of person was Kim Jong Il?” Park said. “No one sent condolences to Libya after Gaddafi died, and Kim Jong Il was worse than him. Gaddafi didn’t have prison camps, he didn’t starve his people like Kim did.”

Park said he’ll have his own send off for his former Dear Leader. He plans his next balloon launch for December 28th, the day North Koreans lay their late ruler to rest.

Moshik, Ma'ariv, Israel

North Korea’s Kim Jong Il has always been fodder for political cartoonists and his untimely death is no exception. In these cartoons look for wailing and crying, body doubles, the late leader trying to take a nuclear warhead into the afterlife, and the cartoon debut of Kim Jong Un, the “Hair Apparent”.

• The World’s Global Political Cartoons
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It was a little much for one observer, who remarked on a Chinese newspaper website: “Paying respects to a leader doesn’t have to go so far. After all, everyone will die one day.”

But for China’s leaders, somber condolences were the order of the day. On Tuesday, President Hu Jintao visited the North Korean embassy in Beijing, as did his likely successor, current Vice President Xi Jinping, other officials and other visitors, carrying bouquets of white flowers. Foreign journalists, looking for visas to cover Kim Jong-Il’s funeral, were told to come back next year.

North Korea has turned inward for 13 days of mourning, limiting the flow of traffic across its usual trading point with China, at Dandong. Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu delivered a statement from China’s top leadership.

“We are shocked to learn that DPRK (Democratic People’s Republic of Korea — North Korea’s official name) top leader comrade Kim Jong Il passed away and we hereby express our deep condolences on his demise and send sincere regards to the DPRK people,” the statement read. “Comrade Kim Jong-il was a great leader of the DPRK people, and an intimate friend of the Chinese people, and he had made important contributions to developing the DPRK’s socialist cause and promoting good-neighborly and cooperative relations between China and the DPRK.”

Kim didn’t always cooperate as China might have liked. He resisted calls to enact economic reforms; he made sure years of nuclear disarmament talks that China hosted went nowhere; and much to China’s dismay, he launched missiles or carried out nuclear tests whenever he wanted to get international attention and food aid.

North Korea gets most of its food and fuel from China, and that’s become more important this year, with about six million North Koreans – a quarter of the population — in need of food aid, in the face of a bad harvest and UN sanctions. North Korea also supports a million-man army, which needs its food and fuel, too.

“I think it’s clear that the sanctions had been biting, that they’d taken a toll, that the North has definite cash-flow problems,” says Stephanie Kleine-Ahlbrandt, the International Crisis Group’s Northeast Asia project manager. “And I think North Korea is fundamentally uncomfortable with having to rely on China. Ideally, they’d like to be able to balance out that dependency with the Russians, with the Americans, with any other European country, some of which are already quite engaged with North Korea.”

It may be with the expectation of food aid that North Korea announced on Saturday – around the same time Kim Jong Il is said to have died – that it would suspend its uranium enriched nuclear weapons program, a central U.S. demand for the resumption of disarmament talks.

Whether such talks would lead anywhere is another question. Brian Myer, an international relations professor at Dongseo University in Seoul, told the BBC he doesn’t expect new leader Kim Jung-Un to veer significantly from his father’s path when it comes to North Korea’s nuclear program.

“I think he’ll want to make progress, not in the sense we would use, but for him, I think progress means further weaponizing the nuclear potential he has,” Meyer said. “North Korea really has no reason to disarm or to make peace with the United States, because if it were to do so, it would really lose all reason to exist outside South Korea as a separate state.”

Kim Jong Il, and his father Kim Il Sung before him, kept power by isolating the North Korean population, and feeding it stories both of North Korea’s superiority to all other places, and of the imminent threat of attack from external enemies — the United States, especially. That’s justified the expense of keeping a huge army, and maintaining a “military first” policy. But with ever more North Koreans succeeding in traveling to China and coming back with stories of the outside and pirated DVDs, a growing number of North Koreans are getting a clearer idea of what the outside world is like, and how much they’re suffering by comparison.

Still, power remains in the hands of the elites, with the Kim family at the core. And North Korea’s nuclear program provides insurance that North Korea won’t become the next Libya or Iraq. It’s also a bargaining chip for aid, which has proven lucrative over time, especially to North Korea’s small core of elites. The urge for those elites to protect their privileges – while much of the population suffers – may help the succession go smoothly, in the short run. Stephanie Kleine-Ahlbrandt of the International Crisis Group said the concern is what might happen later.

“Our greatest worry would be that if Kim Jung Un or his closest supporters feel insecure or weak enough, if for example, there were splits in the leadership, they might feel they have to demonstrate their military prowess, and we might go back to a phase of seeing more provocation,” Kleine-Ahlbrandt said.

But for now, the focus is on presenting a united front, mourning the dead, marking the passing of one era and the beginning of another. Whether the young third-generation heir to a socialist dynasty can do any better for his country than his father did, China’s leaders stand ready to offer help and guidance.

On Tuesday, they invited Kim Jung-Un to visit, once a decent interval has passed.

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The text below is a phonetic transcript of a radio story broadcast by PRI’s THE WORLD. It has been created on deadline by a contractor for PRI. The transcript is included here to facilitate internet searches for audio content. Please report any transcribing errors to theworld@pri.org. This transcript may not be in its final form, and it may be updated. Please be aware that the authoritative record of material distributed by PRI’s THE WORLD is the program audio.

Marco Werman: Stephen Bosworth was, until recently, President Obama’s special envoy for North Korea. He’s also the dean of the Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy at Tufts University. We were intrigued to see analyst Victor Chao[SP] in the New York Times today, making the point that Washington is basically helpless in this new reality in North Korea. Does China, as he points out, really hold all the cards, and if so where does that leave the US right now?

Stephen Bosworth: I’m not sure China holds all the cards right and we, of course, I think, hold a few basically in terms of the signals we send about how we would like to relate to the North Korean regime as time moves on, but in fact, neither we nor China, in my judgement, really know very much about the inner workings of North Korea. This is a very secretive state and we know a little bit about what their arrangements for the succession, but not all that much.

Werman: Doesn’t China know more about North Korea though, than the US?

Bosworth: Probably because they have connections that we don’t have, particularly through their military. The two militaries have a kind of fraternal connection that goes back, not surprisingly, to the Korean war.

Werman: This is a powerful moment, though, for the world. I mean if some analysts are suggesting that China is in this position, they have some kind of intelligence that makes them feel like, “Well, we’re at a point where we can either let North Korea go it alone, we let them go away or we keep them for ourselves.”

Bosworth: Well, I’m not sure that reflects China’s real interests in North Korea. China does not want North Korea to be a permanent nuclear weapon state. On the other hand, they also don’t want North Korea to collapse. They view North Korea as a very useful buffer in a Geo-strategic sense against South Korea which has a military alliance with the United States. Their nightmare would be the re-unification of the two Korea under a South Korean model with a military relationship with the United States.

Werman: Why would that be a nightmare?

Bosworth: They’re not eager to have a US military presence in effect on their border. I’m not sure that’s a good idea for us either. We tried that once back in 1950, and we didn’t like the result too much.

Werman: You know, when there’s so little intelligence, I’m wondering kind of what advice you have, Stephen Bosworth, for the United States government right now in dealing with North Korea. I mean it’s kind of like looking at a picture and you can’t really see what’s going on in the picture.

Bosworth: No, I think the advice that anyone would have is basically to remain calm, don’t treat this as some sort of a flaming crisis – at this point it’s not, but the real problem is that North Korea is a failing state. A failing state right at the heart of probably the most strategically important economic region of the world – North East Asia. So until we can act collectively with the rest of the countries in the region to stabilize North Korea and give it some prospect for growth, it’s going to remain a point of great concern. We must be willing to engage with North Korea. We have a tendency to regard all problems as being vulnerable to a very short term solution.

Werman: And remind us what that strategy is, that the United States has of dealing with this in the long term.

Bosworth: Well, we’ve been dealing with this, attempting to, at least, through the so called Six-Party process, working with our allies and partners in the region. We have also been pushing them, particularly the Chinese have been pushing them, to embark upon fundamental reform. So far, the North Korean have resisted that. They need it desperately. I think that they even know that they need reform, but they fear that opening up, which would be part of the reform process, makes them very vulnerable to external influence and jeopardizes the survival of the regime, and regime survival is their fundamental goal.

Werman: Well, given that regime survival is going to be there, this is Christmas after all. We can wish. What is the one wish you would have for some kind of progress forward on North Korea right now? Some kind of like little crack in the wall, some ray of sunlight coming through.

Bosworth: Well, I think some indication for the North Koreans that they’re willing to engage in good faith efforts to establish that they’re prepared to come back and talk seriously about the fundamental problems that exist. This is going to be a long term problem. We’re going to have to manage it for a long period of time and remain engaged.

Werman: Stephen Bosworth, dean of the Fletcher School and former envoy to North Korea. Thank you very much for coming in.

Bosworth: You’re very welcome.

Copyright ©2009 PRI’s THE WORLD. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to PRI’s THE WORLD. This transcript may not be reproduced, in whole or in part, without prior written permission. For further information, please email The World’s Permissions Coordinator at theworld@pri.org.

It was just the start of lunch hour on Monday when South Korean local news was interrupted by a special broadcast from the North.

A very emotional North Korean anchorwoman wearing a traditional Korean black funeral gown announced that Kim Jong-il had died this past Saturday from a heart attack. She said the Dear Leader was exhausted from all the guidance he had given to make North Korea a great nation.

The South Korean government went into immediate crisis mode.

Choi Bo-sun, a spokesman for the Ministry of Unification, the government body that deals with all North Korean matters, gave a live address on South Korean television. Choi said Seoul is following established protocol, and is coping with the death of Kim Jong Il according to long-established plans. He added that a special commission has been created to monitor all developments in the North.

That might include whether or not the firing of a short-range missile off North Korea’s East coast late on Monday was connected to Kim’s death. So far, South Korean government sources have told local media that the two are not related.

President Lee Myung Bak has urged South Koreans to remain calm and go about their normal lives. And judging by reactions in Seoul, it seems many South Koreans are doing just that. Many people I spoke to on the streets of Seoul on Monday said they didn’t care about the death of North Korea’s leader; some even laughed it off.

But Yu Mi Hyun, who’s 25, said people here should care. Yu said she was in her office when she heard the news. At first she didn’t think it was a big deal. “But after I spoke to friends in the military, I realized that this is really important.”

A 56-year-old man named Mr. Seong who reading newspapers posted on a billboard outside the Seoul Press Center had other concerns. He said he’s worried how the North Korean leader’s death might affect the economy.

“Everything in the market is going to change,” Seong said. “All sectors are going to be affected by his death.”

Seong had a point. South Korea’s KOSPI index took a 3.2 percent hit as news of uncertainty on the Korean peninsula reached investors abroad.

But the uncertainty is raising hopes for some in South Korea, namely, the 22,000 strong community of North Korean defectors.

Kim Hung-kwang, president of North Korea Intellectuals Solidarity, an organization made up of former North Korean elites, said he’s telling constituents not to get too excited though.

He said North Korea under a new leader can go one of two ways; it can become open to the international community and engage, or it could become an even more militarized state and even more dangerous than before.

But Kim Hung-kwang said now’s the time to reach out to North Koreans and counter the propaganda that painted Kim Jong Il as a hero.

He said even though many difficulties lie ahead, the day when he and other defectors can finally return to their home suddenly seems closer.

More from the BBC

North Koreans weeping publicly (KCNA footage)

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The text below is a phonetic transcript of a radio story broadcast by PRI’s THE WORLD. It has been created on deadline by a contractor for PRI. The transcript is included here to facilitate internet searches for audio content. Please report any transcribing errors to theworld@pri.org. This transcript may not be in its final form, and it may be updated. Please be aware that the authoritative record of material distributed by PRI’s THE WORLD is the program audio.

Marco Werman: Reaction inside North Korea is much harder to gauge. The government in Pyongyang keeps a very tight reign on information. So far the images being broadcast by North Korean state media feature people in the capital wailing and crying as they mourn the loss of their dear leader. The students at the Pyongyang No. 1 Secondary School were united in their sorrow. Professor Hazel Smith is an expert on North Korea at Cranfield University in England. She lived in North Korea for two years. Smith says those wailing students are not your average North Koreans.

Hazel Smith: Pyongyang No. 1 Secondary School is where the elite go to school and where they will have been filmed by the North Korean TV to show all this grief in order to put on a show for the world. So the main question is what about the rest of the people? Most people think that Kim Jong Il doesn’t provide them with a descent life, enough food to eat, that they’ve suffered a calamitous degradation of their lives economically over the past 20 years. And so certainly there is little legitimacy of this government among the population as a whole.

Werman: Well, then let me as this question, if the state has less control now why were there not people happy and maybe expressing the happiness that Kim Jong Il is gone?

Smith: Well, this is still an authoritarian country and it’s still incredibly difficult in that they would be punished if they criticized the leadership, that’s one thing. And the other thing, it’s about minus 14 degrees celsius…

Werman: Yeah, that’s 7 Fahrenheit, it’s really freezing.

Smith: People literally can’t move from door to door without freezing. I lived there through two very cold winters and it’s no joke. Without fuel you simply have, you can’t move outside because if you breath you freeze. So there is no scope for people getting on the streets and demonstrating one way or the other. In fact, the coldest people are going to be those that have to take part in these orchestrated funeral ceremonies that will take place over the next few weeks.

Werman: Now, Hazel, we’ve seen people take to the streets and put everything on the line in the Arab world through the Arab Spring to push their heads of state out of power. Now, Kim Jong Il has died, he’s gone. Do you personally hold out any hope as somebody that’s live in North Korea, somebody that visits there, that Kim’s death could lead to greater freedoms for North Koreans?

Smith: What we see in North Korea is that the country is run domestically by a military commission and it has been run by this commission since the late 1990s, and Kim Jong Il was leader of this commission. That means there’s going to be no change in the central authority or the central approach towards increasing political freedom for people in the country. At the same time the people as I said earlier, the vast majority of the population of the 24 million population simply do not have enough food and fuel to survive. All the revolutions made in history and those in the Middle East are not made by starving people. Revolutions are made by people who have enough to eat and want more freedom, usually educated, usually lower middle class, although there is an educated middle class in North Korea, these people are the ones that don’t have food in the back garden who live in big apartment blocks (it’s a 70% urbanized country) who are literally as I said earlier, trying to scrape enough food to eat and to physically get the family through the winter.

Werman: What have the multiple generations of Kims done to North Koreans in terms of obedience? Do North Koreans follow these leaders because they have to now or has time meant that they actually want to follow them?

Smith: There was strong ideological control for the media and through education through the whole of the period of Kim Il Sung and it was backed up by very strict penal controls. There were purges in the ’50s, people were executed as happened in the Soviet Union. When you come to the last 20 years the state hasn’t been able to maintain those controls and North Koreans, as any other people in the world, they’re just the same as you and me, they want a good job, they want their children to have a good education…you know, they want to have a good laugh and be able to go out and enjoy themselves like everybody else. They are not a brainwashed people who just do what they’re told. There is not sense of cause because they’re not idiots. That Kim Jong Il has delivered anything for them when their families are living in poverty and where they get lots of information about the outside world today through South Korean media, through DVDs, when you see the kids, when I saw the kids in Pyongyang in May when I was last there, you can see them copying the styles of the South Korean male pop stars. Young men you know, coiffed up hair and jackets pushed back toward the elbows. You can see it’s very apparently a way it wasn’t 8-9 years ago when I used to live there. There’s a lot of influence from the outside world there.

Werman: Hazel Smith, a professor at Cranfield University in England, thank you very much.

Smith: Thank you.

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The text below is a phonetic transcript of a radio story broadcast by PRI’s THE WORLD. It has been created on deadline by a contractor for PRI. The transcript is included here to facilitate internet searches for audio content. Please report any transcribing errors to theworld@pri.org. This transcript may not be in its final form, and it may be updated. Please be aware that the authoritative record of material distributed by PRI’s THE WORLD is the program audio.

Marco Werman: New Jersey native Robert Egan serves as an unofficial ambassador for the government of North Korea. When he’s not behind the counter of his barbecue restaurant in Hackensack, Egan is running a trade group that’s worked to improve ties between North Korea and the US. Egan’s work has been profiled in The New Yorker as well as on this program. When we reached him at his restaurant today he was full of praise for the late Kim Jong Il.

Robert Egan: Nobody can dispute that we know more about North Korea today than we’ve ever known before and all that credit goes to Kim Jong Il. He was the one that was responsible for cracking that door open.

Werman: You almost make Kim Jong Il sound like a reformer.

Egan: Yeah, he was a reformer as far as dictators go. Let’s face it, it was a bad year for dictators. Kim Jong Il saw this coming years ago…

Werman: But he was also a man who has starved over a million of his own people.

Egan: No, he didn’t starve a million of his own people, okay? What he inherited in the division of the Korean Peninsula after WWII starved a million people. We cut that country in half after it was united for 5,000 years because we didn’t want to go to war with Russia, okay, we gave half that peninsula to the Russians and Stalin.

Werman: Robert Egan, tell me how you became involved with the government of North Korea.

Egan: North Koreans were investigating how Vietnam achieved a roadmap toward normalized relations with the US. The knew the route to do that like with Vietnam was to get normalized relations with the US. I walked Vietnam through the roadmap of normalized relations with the US. North Korea went knocking on Vietnam’s door, they asked for a recommendation, and Vietnam recommended me.

Werman: Did you ever meet Kim Jong Il?

Egan: No, I didn’t. Actually I was at the same ceremony as him, but he was certainly a guy working at my level doesn’t get those opportunities too often, but it was his regime and the men that were working under him that allowed me to have access to non-governmental organizations over the years, brought many, many top secret North Korean delegations over to the United States to negotiate with the United States. I brought delegations over to North Korea.

Werman: So what kind of window through those upper level officials in North Korea, what kind of window did you get into the man Kim Jong Il? I mean what do you know about him that the rest of us don’t know?

Egan: He liked women, he liked cigars and he liked booze. He was a regular guy, and certainly he knew that his country was in a lot of trouble. Well, he sought out help from the west. Did he come as far as we would have liked him? Of course not, he’s a dictator, but certainly I think it’s time now to reflect back and to encourage whoever steps into his shoes to open up more. And be doing that we need to recognize the liberties that Kim Jong Il gave his own people to interact with his enemies.

Werman: You once said that you were Kim Jong Il’s man in New Jersey. Will those loyalties now shift to his son, Kim Jong Un?

Egan: You know, there’s a lot of doubt whether he’s gonna be able to maintain that…

Werman: Are you hoping that the crack…

Egan: that his father and his grandfather had.

Werman: Right, but are you hoping that maybe the crack gets wider and there’s a role for you to play now?

Egan: No, you know, this is what I hope — I hope it becomes a democracy. Okay, and I hope some of my guys that I know run for office, maybe one of them [unknown 03:14] North Korea.

Werman: Have you spoken to any of them, Robert Egan, in the last 24 hours?

Egan: Yes, yes, I’ve spoken with a few of them.

Werman: And what have they told you?

Egan: There’s uncertainty and they’re sad. You know, even if your father has been abusive and he dies, are you gonna cry at the funeral? Of course you’re gonna cry. Well, this was their father. He’s a colt-like figure, so certainly at this point you know, they’re gonna be sad. I think as time goes on then they can reflect back and to see you know, exactly the atrocities that were committed. There were millions of people that needlessly died, not because Kim Jong Il killed them, but this is the system that he inherited.

Werman: We’ve been speaking with Bob Egan about the death of North Korean leader, Kim Jong Il. Egan’s book about his personal outreach efforts to the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea is Eating With the Enemy: How I Wages Peace with North Korea from My BBQ Shack in Hackensack. Robert, thank a lot.

Egan: Okay, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.

Copyright ©2009 PRI’s THE WORLD. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to PRI’s THE WORLD. This transcript may not be reproduced, in whole or in part, without prior written permission. For further information, please email The World’s Permissions Coordinator at theworld@pri.org.

Ever since his arrival earlier this month, Kim Han Sol has attracted hordes of reporters. I caught up with him near the campus of United World College, where he’s entered junior year. Kim was dressed like many teenagers, with a touch of a hipster, sporting thick-rimmed glasses, a stylish haircut and earrings.

He wouldn’t let me record our conversation, but he did answer a few questions. He told me being Kim Jong Il’s grandson comes with a lot of baggage.

“It’s guilt by association,” he said in perfect, unaccented English. “All I want to do is study and live my life.”

That’s not so easy when your father is the Dear Leader’s oldest son, Kim Jong Nam. The son fell out of favor in 2001, after he was caught trying to sneak into Japan with a fake passport to visit Disneyland.

The grandson, Kim Han Sol, has attracted some attention of his own. The South Korean media have been pouring through his social media profiles. On his Facebook page, they found that he responded to a poll, saying he preferred democracy over communism.

Kim Han Sol told me people shouldn’t read too much into that. “It was silly poll,” he said. “In communism and democracy, you have both good and bad.”

That’s not what you’d expect from the grandson of the North Korean dictator. But Kim Han Sol says he hasn’t lived in North Korea since he was two-years-old, though he visits every summer. Most recently, he lived with his father in Macau, where he attended another international school.

“I know almost nothing about North Korea. Most of what I know is from you guys,” he said, referring to the media.

When Stephen Codrington interviewed Kim Han Sol for his school application, he said he saw something special in him.
“He is his own person, and that was very clear during the interview. He’s an individual in his own right,” said Codrington, who’s the former head of United World College in Hong Kong. Kim Han Sol was originally accepted to attend his last two years of high school there, but Hong Kong authorities wouldn’t give him a visa. So he went to the Bosnia campus instead.

Codrington said he thinks that Kim should find Mostar extremely interesting given its history — it was devastated by the Bosnian civil war in the 1990s.

“I think it’s a good school for Kim because I think it will give him insight into other conflicts – the ways in which they’re being handled or mishandled, as the case may be,” Codrington said. “I think it will broaden his perspective of something that I know matters a lot to him, and that is the division on the Korean Peninsula.”

A broader perspective is something on display in Dzenan Hakalovic’s history class at United World College. The Bosnian teacher leads a discussion about Bismarck – the man who unified Germany – in a class with students from Bosnia, Britain, Turkey and Afghanistan.

Later in the year, the class tackles the issue of the Balkan wars. In fact, part of United World College’s mission in Mostar is to foster reconciliation in ethnically divided Bosnia.

After class at a nearby café, Dzenan Hakalovic, told me the school’s melting pot can be a transformative experience.
“We have students coming from the Middle East, Afghanistan, and Israel-Palestine. We have students from former Communist states, from the Balkans, and students from western Europe and the United States, all sitting together in a classroom. That makes it much easier to talk about different perspectives,” Hakalovic said.

According to Kim Han Sol, that’s exactly what drew him to the school — many different view points that he hopes will give him a better understanding of the world.

He’ll also get the opportunity to see first-hand how Mostar is dealing with its own reconciliation. His new school is situated at what was basically a front line between Croat and Bosniak forces.

Mostar Mayor Ljubo Beslic, a Croat, said while the legacy of conflict remains there, ethnic divisions are easing up. Mostar, he said, is a good example for others to follow.

Then the mayor added that he thinks Kim Han Sol, in particular, can learn a lot from being here.

• In pictures: Korea’s day of tension
• FAQ Korean crisis
• North Korea affects US-South Korea relations

Read the Transcript
The text below is a phonetic transcript of a radio story broadcast by PRI’s THE WORLD. It has been created on deadline by a contractor for PRI. The transcript is included here to facilitate internet searches for audio content. Please report any transcribing errors to theworld@pri.org. This transcript may not be in its final form, and it may be updated. Please be aware that the authoritative record of material distributed by PRI’s THE WORLD is the program audio.

LISA MULLINS: I’m Lisa Mullins and this is The World.  The Korean peninsula was heating up again this past weekend.  South Korea was planning to conduct a military exercise near the disputed border with the North.  Today, it made good on that threat.  But, North Korea did not make good on its threat to retaliate.  Not only that, officials in the Communist state told visiting New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson that they have agreed to allow international inspectors to resume monitoring North Korea’s nuclear facilities.  The World’s Mary Kay Magistad in Beijing says the North Korean response comes as a surprise.

MARY KAY MAGISTAD: It sort of begs the question of, is this yet another, very dramatic example of North Korea making big threats, saying, you know, “We can make your lives very difficult.  We have the weapons.  We have the potential to, you know, turn the whole peninsula into an island of fire.  You need to deal with us.”  Bill Richardson comes in, they talk and they agree to move forward in a new direction.  And then it’s really interesting the way the Chinese media are spinning this.  They’re basically saying, “Look, North Korea is emerging as the great statesman here.”  They’re quoting the North Korean high command saying, “We don’t need to respond to South Korea’s provocations.  You know, we’re going to see here who’s the real peacemaker and who’s the provocateur.”

MULLINS: So, as you say, North Korea has sometimes been willing to play ball, sometimes it hasn’t in the past.  So, who’s to say now that even though we’re told that they will allow in U.N. weapons inspectors once again that they will actually do that and give them unfettered access?

MAGISTAD: Excellent question.  North Korea has in the past played ball but it hasn’t always been the same game of ball that those on the other side would like it to play, and it doesn’t always play all the innings.  It might agree to a package of things that it’s going to do in exchange for aid that it’s going to get and it will do some of those things, get a lot of the aid and then, perhaps, the aid doesn’t come in on schedule and so it stops or, perhaps, it just decides it’s going to stop.  It feels that there’s bad faith on the other side or so it says in its official media, and so changes its policy.  You know, at this stage, North Korea has every incentive to … the North Korean government has every incentive to try to get more aid in.  It’s been a bad harvest this year.  The economy is in a shambles and there’s a succession coming up where the father Kim Jong Il is trying to pass on power to his son Kim Jong Un over time, and he would like to, you know, be able to resolve the differences that North Korea has long had with the United States and get North Korea into a sustained position of more power than it has at the moment.

MULLINS: And just to be clear, Kim Jong Il, presumably, is still the one calling the shots, not his son who is going to be taking power?

MAGISTAD: Right. I mean it’s certainly assumed that Kim Jong Il will be the leader of North Korea until he dies.

MULLINS: Mary Kay Magistad, The World’s Beijing Correspondent speaking to us from Beijing, China.  Thanks, Mary Kay.

MAGISTAD: Thank you, Lisa.

Copyright ©2009 PRI’s THE WORLD. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to PRI’s THE WORLD. This transcript may not be reproduced, in whole or in part, without prior written permission. For further information, please email The World’s Permissions Coordinator at theworld@pri.org.

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